you are correct, Sir. if you pull the clutch and then pull the primary driven sprocket, the cam chain sprocket is accessible behind it. it'd rather go back and sit in the dentist chair for 2 and a half hours, personally. i've had enough fun with the clutch pressure-plate bolts to last me a lifetime. but. it if comes to it, i'll go that way, because it is much easier. on the other hand, if i tear it down from the top, i can visually inspect the valves. not worth it.

don't know if i'll start my fishing expedition tonight. if not, tomorrow.

--fred

some fishing with custom coat-hanger cam drive sprocket chain loop tool made it pretty easy to get the chain off the shaft and back onto the crank sprocket. in fact it was way too easy, because with the chain back on the sprocket, zeroing in on Rear TDC is nothing less than a bitch. i had both cam shafts on 180deg out of phase. that was clear. but even with them pulled off, lining up TDC is, well, difficult. as i approach R TDC the crank jumps either cw or ccw depending upon which direction i'm approaching it from. i think i need to make another CCT stopper tool. i was under the impression that the stopper tool pushed the CCT in, but now i think that turning it clockwise and locking it actually releases tension.
i wasn't paying attention when i screwed my first stopper tool in. i just assumed it was tightening the spring.

am i right that it releases tension? the shop manual doesn't get explicit about this.

it appears that with the OEM CCT set, it will be all but impossible for me to get the front sprocket one with cam chain around rear and front at correct orientations. it's 'round midnight and i'm burnt. i'll make another stopper tool tomorrow and continue. i love this bike.

--fred

Sounds like you're fighting compression at TDC. Pull the spark plug.

Haha, so frustrating when all you want to do is ride, eh? Try breaking off a bolt when putting everything back together with no way of getting it out, and even if you do you need to order a new bolt to ride!

I'm not to familiar with the OEM CCT's- I installed the manual ones and you can just back them off to remove pressure, then set your sprockets. It's still a little bit of a squeeze, but I would never use the term "forced" or "prying" to describe the assembly when I did it.

I wonder if you could put the cam chain on the sprockets while it's off of it's guide that the CCT is pressing on (if there's room- maybe you can push it to the side) and then put them on the buckets as an assembled pair with the chain on them? You'd then be able to put the cam covers back on...

Is there any problem with turning the crank clockwise 1/4 of a turn to adjust it? I've done it slowly before to adjust the TDC...

yeah. it's kind of like trying to balance a marble on the top of a parabola. as i approach R TDC mark, something gets tighter and tigher ?front cyl cams on valves? and then it pops free, as though spring released. i have it at R TDC now, but it took about 20 attempts back and forth in order to nudge it there, and it is not stable.

i'm going to make my CCT stopper tool now and hopefully get the camshafts and sprokets and chains on all in correct orientation.

--fred
[Edit]maybe i misunderstood your question. do you mean turning past R TDC cw 1/4 of a turn?

Is your bike on a rear stand by any chance?

Good question. I assume both plugs are pulled, so you're not fighting compression. If it's on a rear stand, you could put it in a high gear and block the rear wheel to hold it at TDC.

yes. it's on a rear-stand. i just fashioned a much better version of the CCT stopper tool than my first attempt. yes. it compresses the spring in the CCT and then locks in to release the tension on the cam chain guide. it is installed and locked. :-) !

i'll try blocking the wheel in order to stabilize the R TDC crank position while i put the front cam sprocket wrapped with cam chain with back lined up at 'RE' pointed out and front lined up with 'IE' pointed out.

i have cable ties at the ready.

thanks,

--fred

when/if i install the APE CCT (i got them in the mail last week), i won't be making any more of these:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_z...2/P1080993.JPG

i wedged some large kindling into strategic spots in a fanciful effort to block the rear wheel. while doing so, i managed to turn the rear wheel... but due to chain slack i didn't move it off the R TDC mark. the cam chain is so nice and loose now with my stopper tool installed that i don't want to do anything but admire it for a week before proceeding to re-install the cam shaft covers and front sprocket with chain.

here is how nice and loose the CCT and cam chain are after inserting new and improved stopper tool! if i didn't take so many pictures, i might actually get something done.

stopper tool screwed cw to end and pushed in locked: (sh*t! what's that bolt doing there?)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_z...2/P1090003.JPG

very nice and loose rear cam chain: (note safety speaker wire almost unraveled)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_z...2/P1080997.JPG

put the cam shaft covers, sprockets and chain guide on at R TDC. everything lined up. and the EX cam is up and in, as is the IN cam. backed out the OEM CCT stopper. i can barely fit a 0.016mm feeler into the exhaust cam and valve lifter gap at R TDC. same weirdness as before. i turned the motor via crank bolt a couple of times thinking that maybe the valve lifters need seating (even though i'd slid each one easily straight down until it seated). still same non-spec narrow space between valve lifter and cams at R TDC.

when i rotate the crank ccw, it gets to a certain point where the resistance becomes pretty strong right before getting to R TDC and then it jumps and there is a clank, the source of which i've not ascertained. is this abnormal?

thanks,

--fred

Well geeze it almost sounds normal. When I was rotating it I remember spots with more resistance, then it would sort of "fall" over like the piston had dropped... it did make noise too... you got me all curious now. Maybe tonight I'll pull my plugs and start spinning it 'cause I can't tell either way from your description.

Exhaust is the one that's supposed to be .031 mm or so? I'd imagine if you had a bent valve that the shim bucket clearance would be a lot larger (cause the overall length of the valve would be shorter). Perhaps someone with more experience has some insight...

Does it do the clank for front TDC?

i'd be happy if there were a decent gap at the exhaust cams/valves and even a smigen of space at the intake cams/valves at TDC. i labeled everything when i pulled it off, but i wanted to make sure that the right cam was in the right spot. they are. it also gets tight and then pops past when the rear exhaust and front intake lobes are both pointed straight down. makes sense. scratching my head...

the shop manual is not just a little confusing in its explanations of the front FI and FE marks. "located inward" "located outward" .

thanks,

--fred

mmmmm. is it possible that the clicking i'm hearing when rotating the crank is the front chain skipping.

there is absolutely NO WAY that that i can get the FE mark on the front front and the FI mark on the front rear flush with the cyl head surface and facing outward as show on page 3-8 of the shop manual when the FT timing mark is aligned with the index mark on the crankcase cover (F TDC).

don't worry. i didn't remove ANYTHING except the valve cover in the front.

--fred

crap guys!

i've been f**king around with the wrong cylinder valves! i just shined a flash-light down to check the front CCT. it is completely backed out (i.e., it failed). and every time i hear a click, the chain is probably jumping on one or both front cyl sprockets.

i guess i'll get the front cams/sprockets back in line for the TDC mark and measure valve lash on the front. this is turning into an adventure that i'm beginning to wonder if i have the intestinal fortitude to see through to the end...

--fred

Keep with it, man! There's still hope, bananadance says so...

:bananadance:

thanks, Man. any encouragement is helpful at this point. my wife is completely fed up with my life-in-garage. "that bike is really jinxed! get rid if it!"

since everything is accessible, and my front CCT failed, i'm going to back off on trying to get this bike back on the road as soon as possible and pull the valves in the front, and probably in the back, as well. when i finally did a full ccw rotation to R TDC, the gap at the left exhaust valve is WAY larger than spec. i'm going to let the bike age a bit. i'm out of town for week as of Saturday. i'll order some front and rear CCT and cylinder head gaskets and other odds and ends (there's a lot of stuff) before i leave town. along with the shop manual, i'll need to read through some threads to figure out how to make items in order to avoid all the OEM tools.

thanks for all the good advice. i'll re-enter this thread or start a new one when i start pulling this stuff apart and get confused. i'm not sure how to tell how straight the valve stems are. role the stem on my patio? :-). Prussian Blue. 'gotta Google that. makes me think of a cat. otherwise, i never heard of it.

again, i really appreciate all the advice you guys have given me.

--fred