Losing a cylinder after upgrades- HELP!
#1
Losing a cylinder after upgrades- HELP!
Hi All,
Long post with lots of details ahead.
Newish to the Superhawk world. Bought one back in March with 14k miles on it. First 'hawk to me, but I'm very familiar with Hondas (especially V4 bikes). I'm not unfamilar with carbs or mechanic work. Bike was running good but cold-blooded and lean. It had sat unran in a garage the last 4-5 years. My initial impression was that it could use a carb cleaning and maybe a bigger pilot.
Recently, I've gone through this list of "necessary" upgrades and now my bike is running poorly. It's losing a cylinder and I'm losing my mind. Shame on me, I went to do CCTs and since I had everything off the bike, I did all the other stuff too instead of one at a time.
This is what has been done:
Over the last two weeks I've had the bike apart about two dozen times (I'm getting really quick and getting the carbs adjusted or on/off). I've gone leaner and leaner with the same results- usually a backfire or stutter after revving her up and losing a cylinder. Turn her off and let her sit a minute or let her idle on one cylinder a few minutes and the second cylinder comes back eventually like nothing happened. I'm getting popping on accel and decel (popped a little bit before but not bad)
I did find that at some point I broke the plastic choke fitting on the front- thought that may be the culprit. I ordered metal Polaris replacements and drilled out the threads- no change. I realized recently the front plug lead had come loose (from backfiring?) and thought that might be the problem- no bueno. I've tried everything from 2 turns on 45s and 0-1 shim under the needles up to 3+ turns out on 48s with 3 shims. Doesn't matter the scenario, I'm losing a cylinder (I think the rear- the exhaust header isn't as warm as the front). I swapped spark plugs, thinking the new ones may be problematic but same results. I retarded the TPS a bit to 527 ohms and no change. I tightened the MCCTs 1/6 of a turn thinking maybe they were too sloppy and were impacting timing (the ACCTs keep the chain much tighter it seems) and no changes there either.
Carb sync on the last adjustment showed they were pulling the same, so no issues there.
The choke is the most interesting- when the engine is warm, I pull the choke to gauge rich or lean- it seems like it wants to die for a moment the revs up. I'm not getting the dip below idle when off the gas- usually the slow decel at the end, but the engine is bogging down like it's running rich. The bike seems to be giving me signals that it is running both rich and lean and I don't get it.
While plugs aren't always the best indicators, with the 48s the front was running hot and the back looked perfect. With 45s, both cylinders are running hot. Overall though, I would say I've had less problems with 45s than 48s. The coolant reservoir tank was also empty so heat could be a result of lack of coolant/poor coolant.
When both cylinders are firing, especially on the 48s or 3 turns out on the 45s, she pulls like a train and has a hard time keeping the front on the ground. But I get to do that basically one time and then she runs like garbage. Even going back to the stock setup (45s, 2 turns each, .020" each) has not reset her.
Any thoughts? I'd really like her to run well- I keep getting glimpses of greatness but can't get her dialed in. The losing a cylinder under any condition is starting to worry me.
Thanks in advance for your help- I'm taking my wife's bike this week on a trip I had planned for the 'hawk but such is life. I'll be checking in each night I'm sure and continuing to scour the forums for advice.
Long post with lots of details ahead.
Newish to the Superhawk world. Bought one back in March with 14k miles on it. First 'hawk to me, but I'm very familiar with Hondas (especially V4 bikes). I'm not unfamilar with carbs or mechanic work. Bike was running good but cold-blooded and lean. It had sat unran in a garage the last 4-5 years. My initial impression was that it could use a carb cleaning and maybe a bigger pilot.
Recently, I've gone through this list of "necessary" upgrades and now my bike is running poorly. It's losing a cylinder and I'm losing my mind. Shame on me, I went to do CCTs and since I had everything off the bike, I did all the other stuff too instead of one at a time.
This is what has been done:
- K&N air filter (previous owner) cleaned and re-oiled (was filthy)
- baffling removed from stock exhaust (previous owner) no change here
- stainless steel brake lines (shouldn't impact anything)
- new chain, sprockets, tires (shouldn't impact anything)
- Oberon clutch slave cylinder (shouldn't impact anything)
- Blackpatch MCCTs, set to ~6mm total deflection
- TPS set to 497
- Iridium spark plugs gapped to nominal and added
- carbs cleaned, Jack Flash mixture thumbscrews added
- #48 pilot jets, added .020" in front and .040" in rear (.040" and .060" total), 2 1/4 and 2/12 turns out (tried suggested setting in sticky)
- there were no sub-filters in the bike, so I added those as well
Over the last two weeks I've had the bike apart about two dozen times (I'm getting really quick and getting the carbs adjusted or on/off). I've gone leaner and leaner with the same results- usually a backfire or stutter after revving her up and losing a cylinder. Turn her off and let her sit a minute or let her idle on one cylinder a few minutes and the second cylinder comes back eventually like nothing happened. I'm getting popping on accel and decel (popped a little bit before but not bad)
I did find that at some point I broke the plastic choke fitting on the front- thought that may be the culprit. I ordered metal Polaris replacements and drilled out the threads- no change. I realized recently the front plug lead had come loose (from backfiring?) and thought that might be the problem- no bueno. I've tried everything from 2 turns on 45s and 0-1 shim under the needles up to 3+ turns out on 48s with 3 shims. Doesn't matter the scenario, I'm losing a cylinder (I think the rear- the exhaust header isn't as warm as the front). I swapped spark plugs, thinking the new ones may be problematic but same results. I retarded the TPS a bit to 527 ohms and no change. I tightened the MCCTs 1/6 of a turn thinking maybe they were too sloppy and were impacting timing (the ACCTs keep the chain much tighter it seems) and no changes there either.
Carb sync on the last adjustment showed they were pulling the same, so no issues there.
The choke is the most interesting- when the engine is warm, I pull the choke to gauge rich or lean- it seems like it wants to die for a moment the revs up. I'm not getting the dip below idle when off the gas- usually the slow decel at the end, but the engine is bogging down like it's running rich. The bike seems to be giving me signals that it is running both rich and lean and I don't get it.
While plugs aren't always the best indicators, with the 48s the front was running hot and the back looked perfect. With 45s, both cylinders are running hot. Overall though, I would say I've had less problems with 45s than 48s. The coolant reservoir tank was also empty so heat could be a result of lack of coolant/poor coolant.
When both cylinders are firing, especially on the 48s or 3 turns out on the 45s, she pulls like a train and has a hard time keeping the front on the ground. But I get to do that basically one time and then she runs like garbage. Even going back to the stock setup (45s, 2 turns each, .020" each) has not reset her.
Any thoughts? I'd really like her to run well- I keep getting glimpses of greatness but can't get her dialed in. The losing a cylinder under any condition is starting to worry me.
Thanks in advance for your help- I'm taking my wife's bike this week on a trip I had planned for the 'hawk but such is life. I'll be checking in each night I'm sure and continuing to scour the forums for advice.
#4
#6
So I did the plugs with traditional feeler gauges. Min went in easy, max didn’t go I , so I imagine they are at nominal.
petcock vacuum line is on the correct hole, on the side.
doesnt always right on one cylinder. Starts on 2, usually runs on 2 until the engine is under high load then I start having issues.
thanks in advance on the carb setup! I’ll take all the help I can get!
petcock vacuum line is on the correct hole, on the side.
doesnt always right on one cylinder. Starts on 2, usually runs on 2 until the engine is under high load then I start having issues.
thanks in advance on the carb setup! I’ll take all the help I can get!
#11
I’ll try swapping coils too from some of the previous mentions.
Updates soon!
#13
Alright so haven’t given any updates in awhile so here is a quick one:
Purchased an OEM petcock rebuild and did that last night. Sad to say that the original diaphragm looked fine, but swapped anyways.
Secondly, I put new float point valves in. I thought maybe if one was sticking that could cause an issue. They don’t look worn or damaged but definitely didn’t look new either. While the carbs were open, I went back to a 48 pilot at 1.75 and 2 turns.
Getting ready to put the carbs in, I noticed the rear carb boot was damaged slightly. Didn’t looks like it would impact the seal, but decided to order a new set regardless. I also have ordered new coils and will just swap both to make sure everything is fine there as well.
Lastly, I acquired silicone vacuum lines same spec has the ones that run from petcock to cylinder. I cut a replacement line the same length. The old line was starting to slightly crack.
Trying to cover my bases and bummed I didn’t get to fire it up last night with the carb boot, but hopefully once those and the coil are in, she will run well. Keep me in your prayers lol.
Purchased an OEM petcock rebuild and did that last night. Sad to say that the original diaphragm looked fine, but swapped anyways.
Secondly, I put new float point valves in. I thought maybe if one was sticking that could cause an issue. They don’t look worn or damaged but definitely didn’t look new either. While the carbs were open, I went back to a 48 pilot at 1.75 and 2 turns.
Getting ready to put the carbs in, I noticed the rear carb boot was damaged slightly. Didn’t looks like it would impact the seal, but decided to order a new set regardless. I also have ordered new coils and will just swap both to make sure everything is fine there as well.
Lastly, I acquired silicone vacuum lines same spec has the ones that run from petcock to cylinder. I cut a replacement line the same length. The old line was starting to slightly crack.
Trying to cover my bases and bummed I didn’t get to fire it up last night with the carb boot, but hopefully once those and the coil are in, she will run well. Keep me in your prayers lol.
#14
ok things to check, are either chokes not sealing on the carb bodies.. also you said you removed a K&N filter?. you have went back to a standard filter but are you still running dynojet jets as mains that i would assume the owner had fitted when the K&n filter was fitted? you could have a mismatch between standard filter and odd ball jetting?
#16
ok things to check, are either chokes not sealing on the carb bodies.. also you said you removed a K&N filter?. you have went back to a standard filter but are you still running dynojet jets as mains that i would assume the owner had fitted when the K&n filter was fitted? you could have a mismatch between standard filter and odd ball jetting?
update- so new carb boots, petcock vacuum line, petcock, and coils, and she runs flawlessly. When taking the front plug adapter off of the coil wire, loose pieces of coil that had broken off fell out of the insulation- I’m assuming that’s what the problem was. Petcock diaphragm looked fine but was replaced anyways. I was pretty rough on her in the test drive and she went along perfectly without complaint.
thank you everybody for your feedback and help with this. I’m so happy to finally have the bike back and rideable!
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kraher
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04-21-2009 09:39 PM