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-   -   2005 vtr1000f hitting limiter at just over 8000 rpm (https://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/technical-discussion-28/2005-vtr1000f-hitting-limiter-just-over-8000-rpm-35846/)

Scoie1981 Aug 23, 2021 03:36 AM

2005 vtr1000f hitting limiter at just over 8000 rpm
 
Hi all Ross here I brought a vtr1000 firestorm and I did the oil and filter and the air filter took her out for a run and noticed that it limited at just over 8000 rpm... the bike did have a BMC air filter and I changed to the oem filter could that cause this issue.. help please

Wolverine Aug 23, 2021 09:23 AM

Any chance you could share a vid of the described 8k rev limit? Just a piss rev for a sec to show us it stop at that rpm?

Scoie1981 Aug 23, 2021 01:56 PM

I don't think I'll be able to get footage as when in neutral it revs all the way up past 9 but going down the road it hits about 8,200 rpm and it's like it is on a limiter if I tried to get footage of this on the road I think I'd bin myself and the bike.. could the bike be jetted and set up for the bmc air filter and now that I've changed it back to stock could this be starving the air enough to cause this issue? Also the bike was only at about 76 degrees Celsius when testing I have also noticed that I obviously have an after market temp sensor as my Thermos kick in at 75 degrees celcuis

Wolverine Aug 23, 2021 05:29 PM

Simply changing the filter shouldn't cause the issue you describe. It would more than likely just go lean or rich a bit (aside from possible non-smooth fueling).
Definitely don't try the vid while riding!

If you want to eliminate air filter possibilities, put the BMC back in.

Cadbury64 Aug 23, 2021 06:49 PM

Running out of puff at high rpm might also be a sign that one of the cylinders is running out of phase due to one of the cam pairs being incorrectly timed to the crank. Has the bike suffered from a previous cam chain failure that required corrective surgery? The bike would run just fine (and no harm is caused) but there's some interference with airflow at high rpm that causes a loss of power. Or so I've read. To test that theory would require some investigation of the crank and cams with the cam covers off. With some lateral thinking you can probably work out when the cylinders are at TDC based on the feeling of compression when turning the crank. The timing shoud be Front-270-Rear-450- Front. The service manual has the required camshaft installation from page 8-20.

xeris Aug 23, 2021 07:35 PM


Originally Posted by Cadbury64 (Post 414105)
Running out of puff at high rpm might also be a sign that one of the cylinders is running out of phase due to one of the cam pairs being incorrectly timed to the crank. Has the bike suffered from a previous cam chain failure that required corrective surgery? The bike would run just fine (and no harm is caused) but there's some interference with airflow at high rpm that causes a loss of power. Or so I've read. To test that theory would require some investigation of the crank and cams with the cam covers off. With some lateral thinking you can probably work out when the cylinders are at TDC based on the feeling of compression when turning the crank. The timing shoud be Front-270-Rear-450- Front. The service manual has the required camshaft installation from page 8-20.

Good call, seems the most likely reason.

Scoie1981 Aug 23, 2021 08:59 PM

Cheers Cadbury64 and wolverine.. I've never taken an engine apart this may be above my pay grade and I may need to put her in the shop for a tinker

Scoie1981 Aug 23, 2021 09:32 PM


Originally Posted by Cadbury64 (Post 414105)
Running out of puff at high rpm might also be a sign that one of the cylinders is running out of phase due to one of the cam pairs being incorrectly timed to the crank. Has the bike suffered from a previous cam chain failure that required corrective surgery? The bike would run just fine (and no harm is caused) but there's some interference with airflow at high rpm that causes a loss of power. Or so I've read. To test that theory would require some investigation of the crank and cams with the cam covers off. With some lateral thinking you can probably work out when the cylinders are at TDC based on the feeling of compression when turning the crank. The timing shoud be Front-270-Rear-450- Front. The service manual has the required camshaft installation from page 8-20.

I'm not sure if she has ever had any cct failures

Cadbury64 Aug 23, 2021 09:57 PM


Originally Posted by Scoie1981 (Post 414108)
I'm not sure if she has ever had any cct failures

Does the bike have manual camchain tensioners or automatic ones fitted? The VTR is reasonably well known for front camchain failures, which result in the piston clipping the valves and bending them, which requires a bit of repair work. Putting the cams back in out of phase can happen during the reassembly.

If you take off the inspection cover on the left side of the engine and use a socket (17mm I think) to rotate the engine clockwise, you should feel the front cylinder come up on on compression (listen for the hissing as the valves open) and then 3/4 of a turn later the rear cylinder should do the same. If there is an extra revolution (so 1 3/4 turns) before the rear head comes to compression, then the timing is at fault as I described. A competent mechanic would be able to sort this inside an hour and with no parts I believe.

Scoie1981 Aug 23, 2021 11:19 PM


Originally Posted by Cadbury64 (Post 414109)
Does the bike have manual camchain tensioners or automatic ones fitted? The VTR is reasonably well known for front camchain failures, which result in the piston clipping the valves and bending them, which requires a bit of repair work. Putting the cams back in out of phase can happen during the reassembly.

If you take off the inspection cover on the left side of the engine and use a socket (17mm I think) to rotate the engine clockwise, you should feel the front cylinder come up on on compression (listen for the hissing as the valves open) and then 3/4 of a turn later the rear cylinder should do the same. If there is an extra revolution (so 1 3/4 turns) before the rear head comes to compression, then the timing is at fault as I described. A competent mechanic would be able to sort this inside an hour and with no parts I believe.

cheers for the info and the bike still has the stock ccts I'll have a little look see at it tomorrow

xeris Aug 24, 2021 05:34 AM

Symptoms don't really fit, but check the routing of the vacuum line at the petcock.

Cadbury64 Aug 24, 2021 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by Scoie1981 (Post 414110)
cheers for the info and the bike still has the stock ccts I'll have a little look see at it tomorrow

My post was incorrect, you need to turn the engine over counter-clockwise i.e. in the same direction as the wheels when rolling forwards.

Scoie1981 Sep 5, 2021 07:03 PM

Cheers all for the help it was as simple are putting the bmc air filter back in and she revs out to over 10k rpm with no issues thanks guys

Scoie1981 Sep 5, 2021 07:49 PM


Originally Posted by Wolverine (Post 414104)
Simply changing the filter shouldn't cause the issue you describe. It would more than likely just go lean or rich a bit (aside from possible non-smooth fueling).
Definitely don't try the vid while riding!

If you want to eliminate air filter possibilities, put the BMC back in.

That's all it was.. the air filter thank God it was an easy simple fix

Wolverine Sep 6, 2021 06:25 AM


Originally Posted by Scoie1981 (Post 414168)
That's all it was.. the air filter thank God it was an easy simple fix

Definitely strange, but whatever works.

Scoie1981 Sep 6, 2021 09:26 PM


Originally Posted by Wolverine (Post 414170)
Definitely strange, but whatever works.

the honda tech said if its had dyno time with that set up then it will cause air restriction and early rev limit.. I didn't think it possible to be so severe but it was bike is a beast now loving the jap v twin rumble


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