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While I don't agree with the viewpoint that tickets are an intrusion into our freedoms, if you look at other traffic systems in the world and compare them to the US you will find our drivers are much less trained, capable, and responsible. I'm fine with not having any more tickets handed out for speeding but at the same time we would need to start making "driving" a serious affair. Do it like the Germans and charge over $1000 for a license and require driver training. Also make it a punishable offense for displaying offensive gestures, driving slow in the left lane, and tail gating. I think half the state of NC would lose their license for left lane hogging (my home state).
I sometimes wonder if people would start paying attention to driving if instead of covering them with air bags they mounted a steal spike on the steering wheel. :evillaugh: |
Or if they would get ticketed for changing lanes and running riders into jersey barriers...I bet they'd pay more attention if they knew it'd get them a boot in their door (ala my recent experience) every time...
I do agree though, that Europe has driving locked down pretty tight, there's no screwing around with violations over there, and the various fines/penalties are pretty high. I don't think that's quite the answer though, it'd probably lead to more scamming. ;) |
fuck that. we're free and i say drive 100mph everywhere naked with your head sticking out the window and a blindfold on and if a cop stops you then dont stop! dont acknowledge their fake "authorty" and keep right the fuck on cause i aint gonna do what they tell me!!! I AINT GONNA OBEY!! freebird!!
actually, nevermind thats a good i dea, i like how Deutschland does shit. |
I just beat Freebird on expert on Guitar Queer-o.
Part of me actually thinks Europe has their driving handled nicely, just because it makes them value it and consider it a privelege and not a right (which is the common albeit misguided view of Americans). Then again, their penalties for a violation are, in quite a few cases, to excessive imho. |
Originally Posted by Condor
(Post 136563)
we disagree. i handle pressure rather well. the truth lies somewhere between.... i am of the opinion that law not enforced is not law, and you think that people should be able to run around like assholes without reprisal.
On the other hand, how many laws do we need? |
Originally Posted by killer5280
(Post 136569)
I'm responding to this because you keep changing your posts. I have never espoused the argument that people should be able to run around like assholes without reprisal. Never. That's a straw man argument and not one that I'm making.
On the other hand, how many laws do we need? |
and that sucks because i was going for Red Herring, but youre right, it was straw man.
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I think you have had more beer than I.
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not tonight. i hate arguing online. id rather just go have a few beers, like gentlemen- have a conversation about it and maybe punch each other in the face some. it's less painful that way. because violence never solves anything but conflicts, and i should know, because im a pacifist.
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Where did the "Don't tase me, bro" line come from?
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im an obtuse man, so i'll try to be oblique....it's from that douche nozzle at the university of florida that got tazed when that other douche nozzle was giving a speech.
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I know all about that. So should John Kerry be taken to task for his membership in Skull and Bones by students like Andrew Meyer?
More importantly, shoud students like Andrew Meyer be tasered for asking questions about Kerry's membership in exclusive secret societies? |
Hi Blue Rigde, i also got speeding ticket for 44 over 30 last sunday and my court day same w/your, here's the short story: me and my buddy(on V-Rod HD) on our way home i saw unmark police car hiding in parking lot at that moment i scan over my speedo and its show 45mph then there was the disco light, but i dont understand after all gearings change -1f+2r plus the unaccurate of normal speedo how do i got caught at 44mph/30 and my buddy didnot get one (lucky him) is that because i was on plastic fairing JAP bike (we was both wore full face helmets) i didnot even try to smart mouth just sign the citation, no explaination just wonders:confused: you know they are the law and they can book me for 65mph/30 and there is nothing i can do about it. Thousand of my words may be not even equal w/1 full sentence of the law in front of the Judge...So learn to take the facts riding/driving over limit even just 1 mile you are just BREAK THE LAW.:(
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thread jacker. he was tased because he was starting to get agitated and the secret service told the UF police to sit him down, calm him down, or make him leave. he wanted to act like some kind of fucking hero for free speech and got some taser darts along with a 5 second burst of 50,000 volts for his trouble. overall, the political ramifications of it was that it was fucking funny.
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and if i'm correct, that whole episode was shown to be more or less another one of his "pranks" and that he pretty much had it planned out and was wanting to cause a scene. i just dont think he was expecting the tasering.
apparently he had a history of doing that kind of thing. like i said, hes a douche nozzle. good riddance. |
Wow! Interesting tread for foreigner :) From speeding to politics!
Guys, you still do not have it really bad way. Live in Belgium, or Netherlands, or UK or even France now. Can I rant a bit too? :) You get ultra-smart speedcameras (in Antwerp they started to integrate them in railings!!!!), unmarked cops that ONLY catching speeders, marked cops that do nothing but catch speeders, unmarked Honda PanEuropeans with built-in radars and "pull over" led signs in stoplight. And fines that make US fines look attractive. So far I had 1 ticket (not for speeding) that even my wife that was in car with me was furious about. And it was Christmas eve and I was sober, even sober for at least 2 months prior to that as I have to drive a lot. No, cop did not pulled me over, did not do anything - he just did not like my maneuvre or perhaps his wife refused him sex that night so he sent fine to me by post! So, what did I do? Did I fight it in court? No, because here you have to pay lawyer and loads even for this simple stuff, not losing side or court or ..... I do not know how it works in US. Road policing should target prevention, not revenue. Therefore road policemen must comply to road rules and real situation description even if other side (offender) don't. This is what makes police respected, but it is always not 100% clean cut... |
everything is political to americans. we have it so good that we like to bitch about every little thing and act like we are oppressed, when in reality we couldnt even begin to comprehend oppression. youre right. we need to be more into deontological ethics and reasoning, but we are a society of professional whiners and victims.
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I just don't agree with the fines. There has to be a better way to slow ppl. down and be safe.
Really, safety is the goal right? If that is true why not just give drivers a set amount of points to lose. Have offences be worth a set amount of points lost. If you lose your points you are off the road. If safety is the ultimate goal I feel that a system like this would have been in place a long time ago. Money is the driving force behind some behavior of LEO's and I feel like thay are trying to make it safer out there. I just believe that the true "speed traps" are total BS and are nothing more than pay days. I know that most State Patrols rely on revenue generated by tickets and that is wrong. What would happen if everyone got together and did not speed for a year? Would the department go unfunded? I doubt it, they would find something else to make money. I doubt they would go fight "real" crimes since there is no money involved in stopping robbery, rape, meth labs, crack houses, domestic disputes and other true crime. I deal with LEO's all the time and have a great appreciation for what they do. They just have to do what they are told. Blame the policy makers. |
i, too, disagree with money being the "punishment", but i really don't know what else to suggest.
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Originally Posted by Erik S.
(Post 136545)
Killer,
I don't feel we are being "scammed". At least I'm not. I'm 32 now. I have not had a ticket in 5 or 6 years now (knock on wood). It's in part to my growing up and following the rules. If you feel you are being scammed, then look at why you feel that way. Are you heavily ticketed? If so, then that is your fault I am sure. I was pulled over by a Officer of the Law, who was genuinely concerned for my safety. She saw me go by on my motorcycle, after I passed her, I "disappeared". Turns out my rear bulb was blown. She chased me and pulled me over to let me know. I thought that was very cool. Want to talk about a scam, how about professional sports. There's a scam. I can buy a pack of 10 hot dogs at the store for $2.50, but at the ballpark 1 hot dog costs that much. Soda, Beer, Peanuts, etc. Those Red Light Cameras and speeding cameras ONLY GENERATE REVENUE BY CAPTURING THOSE WHO ARE BLATANTLY BREAKING THE LAW! We had a speeding camera in Fort Collins, CO, 11 years ago. It NEVER caught me! Even at 21 I knew to take it easy in town. Am I to infer from your comments that we don't need a Military either then, I mean they must be a scam of some sort too. If everyone "could just get along" then we wouldn't need our Armed Forces would we. Hmm, so if everyone "could just obey the laws of the land", we wouldn't need our law enforcement officers. I would bet Killer, that you also complain about the fact that the cops should be catching the real criminals. Well those cameras that you speak so ill of, will allow the Law Enforcement Officers to spend more time on catching the major criminals, and less time on the petty stuff. Choose your poison, or less of two evils. As for your "hallmark of a free people", we have always had law enforcement of some sort. It is a proven fact that anarchy is a fallacy and would result in total self demise. It will stop when people start being responsible for themselves, and stop blaming anyone and everyone else for anything that happens in their lives. I mean that it will stop when people start owning up for their actions. The courts would be less busy if people paid their find for their crimes, civil or otherwise, instead of trying to pull on over on the system. OR BETTER YET, DON'T BREAK THE LAW. BUDGET AND PLAN YOUR TIME BETTER SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPEED. I try to live by the motto "I'm never late, if I'm always early" I get to work at least 15 minutes early, EVERYDAY. Want to hear something interesting, by doing this, when I am late.....My boss knows it is legitimate and I'm not trying to bullshit him. Anyhow, getting off my soapbox now. Flame away if you want. Erik |
Alright let me chime in..way too much rhetoric going on here. I'm 56 I've been riding since I was 13 and I can honestly say that I earned every ticket I ever got save one.
No actually I earned that one too, it's just that the cop that wrote it never really got a clock on me as I was flying and he had to catch up quite aways and by then I spotted him coming and had slowed way down. He pulled me over wrote me up for 5 over..which was an absolute lie..I had been doing about 110!! Those tickets were always inconvenient, usually expensive, but always deserved! I think George Carlin summed it up best. "It's their job to catch me and my job not to get caught" fortunately to this day I do my job better than they do their's Now can we get back to bikes! |
Condor, Thanks!
HRCA, about bikes, does anyone here have knowledge about how the Japanese run their licensing? First time riders, nothing over 400cc, then "x" number of years at that, and so on. IIRC, it's 10 years ormore before you can even think about riding a 1000cc bike, and they cost a lot more than here. Killer, what is your suggestion then, if money isn't an acceptable form of punishment for breaking the law, what do you suggest? Jail time? Immediate loss of privileges? (Driving is a privilege in the United States, it's not a Right!). Don't lose your privileges but your vehicle is impounded? Community Service, which will cost you lost money at work, they usually don't let you do it on the weekend. Seems to me that money is the least of the evils.
Originally Posted by nineighthawk
I know that most State Patrols rely on revenue generated by tickets and that is wrong. What would happen if everyone got together and did not speed for a year? Would the department go unfunded? I doubt it, they would find something else to make money. I doubt they would go fight "real" crimes since there is no money involved in stopping robbery, rape, meth labs, crack houses, domestic disputes and other true crime.
Killer, obviously you didn't read my entire previous post. You skipped the part where a LEO stopped me because she was concerned for my safety. Their sole purpose is not to pull us over and generate revenue, YOU are just focusing on that part. It's similar to people think that because you ride a sport bike you will act like a squid, and do nothing but wheelies and stunts. Nevermind people like the majority of people on here who ride sport bikes for the pure satisfaction of being on two wheels. Stop focusing on one part of the job. I know I don't like to be stereotyped, do you? Do you think the LEOs like being sterotyped by people like you? |
Yes I know the Japanese have a very rigid tiered licensing system and most riders never get to own big bores. It's also worth noting that teir market is largerly 400cc and under and in the past the factories have created some truly phenominal 250 and 400cc units for that market that were never available in this country and would have cost the same as a 750 if they were.
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Originally Posted by HRCA#1
(Post 136601)
. . . I think George Carlin summed it up best. "It's their job to catch me and my job not to get caught" fortunately to this day I do my job better than they do their's
That's where it's at if you own a Superhawk - plain and simple - it's just too much fun not to twist it. |
I just worked with a guy who was stationed in Japan. He said the same thing. Some phenomenal rides at 400cc or less. He also stated that one of the worst thing about the States is that the government views motorcycles as "pleasure" instead of being for commuting. That's why there are less laws protecting us. that's why we can't lane-split (whole other topic I'm sure).
Personally, I think that there should be more structured licensing system for all motorized vehicles. We are not trained well enough, and with all the new distractions out there..... |
Actually, lane-splitting is state dependent, and a big reason I love California rides ;)
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Marine, if i'm not mistaken, CA is the only state that currently allows it. If not, let me know where else.
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For some reason I had thought it legal in a few more states, but I believe I was thinking of lane sharing. Oh well. It's definetly a whole other topic ;)
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MarineHawk;
In California case law it is called "lane sharing", but it is the same thing, and it is legal. Case law allows for "lane sharing" provided 1) you aren't exceeding the speed limit and 2) you aren't going more than 10 mph faster than the traffic you're scooting through. One of the few remaining justifications for living in the Peoples Republik of California (aka Alta Tijuana). |
CA is the only state that allows lane sharing. Hell, in some states it's illegal to have two motorcycles side-by-side!
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