mikstr

Yessir, fans of these backwards, beheading-happy savages rejoice! Thanks to spineless, amoral and opportunistic decision-makers, the Dakar rally is headed to Savage Arabia. Surely a reward for their stellar human rights record (notably for women and non-Muslims), to say nothing of their respect for the free press.

How comforting to know that so long as these barbarians have oil money, there will maggots and low-lifes in the world willing to overlook everything else for their cut.

NHSH

+1 Totally agree

mikstr

Our dear ally (well, Trump's anyhow) put 37 people to death a couple days ago... https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-rel...xecution-spree

with friends like this, who needs enemies... f***ing savages!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you have to be a total brainless and heartless moron to deal with these folks

VTRsquid

Money talks i guess. Its better than no Dakar. The terrain looks pretty amazing. As long as no one gets their heads cut off . Pretty dangerous though,, with Islamic state lurking around. Obviously they think its a less risky proposal than Africa. Moral issues aside, of course, i really dont think Saudi Authorities will be arresting or hanging anyone involved. They love their desert racing too much.

NHSH

The whole region is full of savages, they should go to Australia, plenty of outback and amazing people!!!

Wolverine

Pretty disgusting when you think about it. I'd be concerned traveling to such a place.

mikstr

Really now? I wonder how the relatives of Jamal Khashoggi or all the others put to death by these savages feel about it. Holding an event in such a place is beyond reprehensible. Of course, so long as people express and live by opinions such as yours, it`s bound to keep going. Congratulations, you`re part of the problem!

VTRsquid

Yes, well Putin has killed waay more journalists that didn't tow the party line than that when he was first "elected", and China has been weeding them out since the revolution. America killed millions of people in Vietnam for nothing and basically started all this **** with the Middle East. Im not disagreeing that what they do in Saudi Arabia is heinous, but all those executed were their own. I am just alarmed at the widespread extreme hate and aggression against Muslims that is going to do nothing but perpetuate the problem you say im part of. But I do agree with you that Dakar shouldn't go there on principle, except just with a bit less rabid froth and spittle in my conviction. That said, it could be a stepping stone toward better relationship and modernity in thinking between the two mindsets, albeit a very small one if at all. I'm just trying to be optimistic.

mikstr

you make some good points. I want to be clear, too, that my objection to Savage Arabia has nothing to do with the Muslim religion, but rather the Saudi leadership. I dare think a significant portion of that country's population would love to see them go to hell via an express lane

VTRsquid

Fair point. They did recently allow women to drive cars which is probably a massive step forward (relatively speaking lol). There may be some hope for them to drag themselves out of the dark ages yet.

NHSH

I will have to disagree with you brother, I don't think that hate against muslims is wide spread as you say, nor hate in general in the west, Hate is a symptom of countries that have bad governments and bad economy, most people just want fairness and justice, which is a big issue in this region at the moment.

Politics aside, it's not the place you want to talk politics or religion! At list not on an American forum, if you know what I mean... We are here for one reason, VTR1000!


As I said, I think it would be so much more interesting in the outback of Australia!!!

VTRsquid

Yeah true. Im not trying to offend anyone, but we are all big boys here and I'm happy to be put in my place. This is the RANT sub-forum though, is it not?
You've gotta wonder why they don't host it in Australia. We already have the Finke Desert race which is a pretty amazing event but doesnt get too much coverage. Maybe they are worried about the two events clashing? Maybe its not exotic enough in the spirit of the Paris-Dakar? who knows.. Probably just sold to the highest bidder.

NHSH

Mate, that's exactly why I recon it should be in the outback, it is the perfect place for Paris Dakar ;-)

mikstr

but there would be no beheading-friendly ambiance...

smokinjoe73

Haha this is a great thread. I agree on the savage aspect but respectfully request you dig a bit deeper research wise and see that the killings and beheadings are absolutely a result of the muslim religion. The quran specifically says to kill and behead the infidels.

Islam is not simply a religion but literally a plan for global domination and calls for killing any who oppose. It is in fact the only major religion that calls for such violence against not just opposers but anyone who believes anything else or wont convert.

That being said, I do like the whole rest of the rhetoric.

Going back to our founding fathers I believe it was Jefferson who, when encountering muslims, said that the only solution would be killing since they want only to kill those who don't believe as they do and have no room for compromise.

And yes, beheading other humans that commit no crime other than not bowing to your god is savagery.

mikstr

Christianity hardly has a stellar track record too (Crusades ring a bell?).

anyhow, back to the original post, there is no way this event should be held in SA. They should have either moved elsewhere or cancelled it outright. It`s a good thing that Churchill and the other Allied leaders didn't have such a spineless view of the world and response to Hitler way back in 1939...

VTRsquid

But they did. Hitler walked France holland belgium and pretty much all of western europe and then poland while churchill and the allies sat on their hands .

As to previous post, bait taken, a couple of things;
Isis has done beheadings, but 99.999999% of muslims are not isis.
Nowhere in the quran does it promote indiscriminate killings based of differences in faith
Jefferson's defense of religious freedom extended even to Islam.

mikstr

Chamberlain (and others) tried to appease Hitler, not Churchill. Also, he first attacked Poland, which started his European Tour (the invasions of other countries followed soon after)...

anyhow, we are digressing... the spineless ***** who agreed to take the Dakar show to Savage Arabia deserve to be shot and pissed on...

NHSH

I will have to admit, I'm starting to really enjoy this, now we have history as well... lol

VTRsquid, by the way mate, I will not come in defence of any religion, as all have their faults and all people in the world are descendants of savagery at some point in history, but if you ever read the Arabic version of the Quran, the one they teach in Madrassas in the middle east and now in many Muslim schools in the west, you will see that smokinjoe73 actually have a point.

Denying the truth in this case is like riding a motorcycle blindfolded!
Here is something you need to hear from a real educated person from real Muslim Arab world. Do yourself a favor, open your mind and listen to this entirely and than make up your mind:

VTRsquid

And beheaded.
Oh yeah it was Poland first. I got my itinerary mixed up. No one saw Hitler as being particularly dangerous until he invaded everybody by surprise. He was pretty sneaky about it. Even signed a peace treaty before hand. And Fascism was widespread and mostly accepted at the time. We know about Italy and Spain, England had their own Fascist party and they were pretty big. Churchill had them locked up when war broke out as they were **** sympathetic and likely to leak intel.
But Churchill did nothing until England was looking threatened. They were very unprepared though.
I also digress. **** all religion. And please, there are sooo many Muslims in the world, the majority of them the same as you and me. Please stop spreading the hate and fear.
Anyway, if having the Dakar in Saudi Arabia is such a big deal I am sure all the teams and drivers will boycott the event. ultimately its up to them.

NHSH

Mate, I agree with you on the first part with Hitler and rest of Europe.
As for religion, you not paying attention, no one spread hate and fear on this thread.
If the Inquisition was existing today, would you not be rejecting it??? Not the people, people just following leaders like sheep, no one is against the people (the Muslims) in this case!
As you said about Hitler, most people were not aware of the grand plan that was the core of Nazism, even when it was in their face.
Also, you are contradicting yourself if you have noticed, if you so much hate religion, why are you so defensive of Islam?

I suggest to stop talking about religion and politics if there's not enough tolerance for opinions, as I mentioned earlier, we are here for what we love most!

smokinjoe73

Just a factoid. More (way way more) people were slaughtered by atheist regimes than ALL "religious" wars COMBINED.

Stalin, China, Pol pot, et al. That is why our founding fathers said our rights are from our CREATOR. Otherwise the regime that gave them can simply remove them.

Even Bill Maher who hates religion will say that no, Chistians and Jew are simply not blowing themselves up to kill innocents. NOT beheading women and children etc.
Look close and see the huge charity relief that comes from the Judeo-Christian worldview. Like it or not it formed our whole culture with all the schools, hospitals famine and disaster relief etc.

Don't be tricked by the fake media who tries to say all religion is the same. Really look into it. You gonna tell me Isis is going to help starving people in Haiti? Really?

Murder, rape, pedophilia, adultery are all forbidden by Christianity but allowed and promoted in Islam. Women are enslaved and abused in Islam.

Sorry guys just the facts.

Islam says make treaties when you live in a country then break them when you have enough power to overthrow. That is what is happening all through Europe and the US. Mohamed himself was a murdering (hundreds of times over) raping (his first wife was 9yrs old) guy.

Most Muslims aren't terrorists but the terrorists are very good muslims and are following the quran TO THE LETTER.

Just the facts. Like it or not.

smokinjoe73

FWIW

Without God we are all just a cosmic accident evolved by mistake and random chance from a rock.(!) So there is no good or evil just a bunch of events of random chance.

You accuse those arabs of acting like animals but if you don't know God then to you they ARE animals, nothing more. Without God there are no human rights any more than zebra or chimp rights and you can see how nature works. Kill or be killed.

So it turns out you have to borrow good and evil from Christianity to even say evil exists. CS Lewis spoke of a hidden code in the hearts of all men to know right from wrong. That is put there by God.

Try to argue that killing is wrong without borrowing from a code of ethics. Its impossible. Its all just random chance.

mikstr

You can have ethics without religion, sorry. In fact, many of the most supposedly religious people on this earth are also its biggest hypocrites. Organized relgions today are, first and foremost, political institutions.

No one knows for sure if God exists or not. One could see the whole premise for God as explaining one mystery (the existence of the universe) by another (the existence of God). Again, no one knows for sure; some choose to beleive, some not (I personally am on the fence, but I still choose to live my life by the Golden Rule, meaning I do my utmost to treat others as I would like to be treated). At the end of the day, believe what you want (such is the basis for freedom of religion in most modern democracies), just don`t impose it on others and especially, do not harm or kill those who don`t share your point of view.

Back to Dakar, I would LOVE to see some racers and teams boycott the event but highly doubt it will happen...

VTR1000F

Is this an oil thread?

smokinjoe73

Mikstr, YOU don't know for sure. That's all you get. You cant speak for everyone, sorry. You get one single opinion, no more no less. That's fair right?

I know God exists. I and billions of others. But just for me, I know Him more than I know the sun will rise tomorrow.

I get to see hundreds of others who know for sure too all the time. I get to witness miracles on a regular basis. You see I was once a slave and am now free. The master I had was brutal and would've killed me if I wasn't saved from it.

Its called alcohol.

Before AA and the 12 steps almost NO ONE escaped alive. We all would end up in assylums jails or dead. (or all 3). But when you learn to forgive wrongs done to you then yourself, and allow God to free you, you can be free. As I have been for 12 years.

I see hundreds of people who swear there is no God come to fully know and believe in Him when he saves their lives literally. Smart hard working people who would be dead and tried all they could to stop but failed til they let God do it for them.

I can see you don't know Him but billions do. Like you said, you shouldn't force your beliefs on others. Athiesm IS a religion. You are voicing your superiority to all others by saying you know the ultimate answer and subjugating others by saying they must follow your belief system ("Don't share your religion, etc")

So you simply have your own belief system.

BUT. Have you seen all the places in this country like St Louis, San Diego etc? Named after Christian saints. Or how about all the schools, hospitals, missions, disaster relief, homeless shelters etc. You cant deny that a ton of good comes from them.

smokinjoe73

BTW I fully respect you and your right to your beliefs, just don't try to say yours are more valid than mine. They are after all, just your beliefs.

Here is the truth about the crusades. The muslims attacked first, the crusades were to recapture whole countries like Spain.

VTRsquid

The Muslims, Jews and Catholics all worship the same damn God. That's the stupid part. I've got nothing against religion and respect others beliefs, as long as THEY can respect others beliefs. They cant all be right and everyone else wrong at the same time. Same goes for plain logic and science. When your fairy tales stop you from accepting hard truths like how the Earth is more than 6,000 years old, then I'm sorry, but you are actively detracting from the very thing that separates us from being savages, which is reason and thirst for understanding.

Say what you will about the Muslim world, but in the Dark Ages when Europe was living in mud huts, eating their own **** and burning witches, the Middle East was perfecting Maths, Astronomy, Architecture and creating vast libraries. I dont know what happened since then lol, but just sayin.

I think its really great that you found God and all and it helped you so much but just remember its the same God.

mikstr

dude, I live in the province of Quebec, where 90% of our towns are named after saints... lol (considering the province of Quebec is a short drive north of NYC, you really should know this; try travelling, it does the brain good)

Good for you if you choose to believe in God (and yes, it is a choice). If religions has helped you find the straight and narrow then more power to you. It has helped many, but so-called religious beliefs espoused by opportunists and manipulators has also resulted in death and hardship for millions and millions throughout history. To say otherwise is outright denial. As for millions, and billions, believing, well, that doesn't necessarily make it true, just popular. Millions smoke and drink, does that it make them smart life choices? Not all. One should not confound truth with popularity (look up the fallacy of popularity). I am not sure and have yet to find anyone capable of convincing me as to if there is a God or not. I am ok with that and live my life respecting others, which is more than I can say for a significant number of religious types/zealots. (Fundamentalists, Orthodox,...). ANYONE whose interpretation of their personal beliefs considers they have the right to harm or kill someone else because of their beliefs is seriously f***ed in the head. Again, we can all co-exist by respecting each other.

so, live and let live, and stay away from Savage Arabia (and numerous other dictatorships run by sociopaths)

mikstr

the funny part is they will go into battle against one another, with each being certain he has the big guy`s favour.... go figure!!!!!!!