EBC vs Vesrah pads
02-05-2018, 05:33 PM
#1
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EBC vs Vesrah pads
So, what is the consensus on the best brake pads EBC HH or Vesrah RJL?
After reading the brake mod sticky, all gazillion pages, and re-reading it a few times more, I picked up a F4i master cylinder and set of calipers for $60 on eBay. Even comes with the lever and lines which I will toss for my own lever and SS lines. The bonus is that there are so many more pad choices for the F4i setup compared to the stock calipers. But, now I have to choose, and I have not used either one.
What's everyone's two cents? I see that the Vesrah pads are about twice as much, but cost is not a factor for me. We are talking brakes. I will be using the bike as a trackday bike about twice a year in addition to the usual weekly/daily canyon assault.
After reading the brake mod sticky, all gazillion pages, and re-reading it a few times more, I picked up a F4i master cylinder and set of calipers for $60 on eBay. Even comes with the lever and lines which I will toss for my own lever and SS lines. The bonus is that there are so many more pad choices for the F4i setup compared to the stock calipers. But, now I have to choose, and I have not used either one.
What's everyone's two cents? I see that the Vesrah pads are about twice as much, but cost is not a factor for me. We are talking brakes. I will be using the bike as a trackday bike about twice a year in addition to the usual weekly/daily canyon assault.
02-05-2018, 06:48 PM
#8
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Yeah yeah, I know that asking the question is opening up a can of worms, but I know that some people out there have likely used both on the same bike and brake setup, and probably done some trackdays or racing on each, so I would trust their opinion.
02-06-2018, 09:47 PM
#14
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02-07-2018, 08:54 AM
#17
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Personal experience and cited qualified expert opinions are always welcome here.. Personal opinion stated or implied as fact, or qualified expertise opinion will most often be called as what it is... personal opinion based on no expertise, no qualified testing under controlled conditions, just observations and opinion, what you read or think you were told by others.
I have some of the first and none of the latter, don't claim to be an expert, raced with any, cooked dinner for any or other wise know any "brake pad" experts..
So Id say pads are relatively cheap and a common wear item,,,so try both and make your own opinion.
In street use, I find very little difference in clean surface disks and clean new beded in pads from EBC or Vesrah RJL
Ive used both on brand new EBC wave rotors, my personal SH and many dozens of bikes I've installed them on. Never had a problem, never felt a great difference between the two.
I ordered some Zcoo last week, will wait for summer to install them, but as my EBC rotors are far from needing replaced, they will just get cleaned, scuffed and new pads installed making a real compare impossible.
I have some of the first and none of the latter, don't claim to be an expert, raced with any, cooked dinner for any or other wise know any "brake pad" experts..
So Id say pads are relatively cheap and a common wear item,,,so try both and make your own opinion.
In street use, I find very little difference in clean surface disks and clean new beded in pads from EBC or Vesrah RJL
Ive used both on brand new EBC wave rotors, my personal SH and many dozens of bikes I've installed them on. Never had a problem, never felt a great difference between the two.
I ordered some Zcoo last week, will wait for summer to install them, but as my EBC rotors are far from needing replaced, they will just get cleaned, scuffed and new pads installed making a real compare impossible.
02-07-2018, 09:57 AM
#18
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I have EBC EPFA pads on both my Superhawk and FZ1. Really, really good.
I have always wanted to try the Vesrah RJLs, but end up getting the EPFAs at a better price. No complaints, though.
I have always wanted to try the Vesrah RJLs, but end up getting the EPFAs at a better price. No complaints, though.
Last edited by killer5280; 02-07-2018 at 10:02 AM.
02-07-2018, 10:28 AM
#19
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I guess my take on brake pads is a little different than some but here is what I see.
The stock pads work well but have a GG friction rating. This is very easy on the rotors but gives limited stopping power.
Though I will say I perfer to run a GG pad in the rear caliper to give a bit more "feel" and keep the rear from locking up quite so easy.
So the common mod is to go to a HH rated pad in the front.
Of the HH pads there are 2 basic categories.
You have the $35-$40 group and then the group that cost twice as much, if not more for a set.
The less expensive pads work well and have greatly improved stopping power but some folks can find them grabby or lacking in "feel" in that there is not a lot of modulation to be had.
When they grab, they grab hard. This is called a "High Bite" pad but some would say it is taken to an extreme with this class pad.
Then you have the pricey pads. What you are paying for is better backing plates and a different pad formula.
The thicker backing plates prevent the pads from flexing under hard braking and the different pad compound gives all the stopping power of the less expensive pads but allows you to modulate the baking force much easier.
So depending on how you ride this can be handy. Trail braking or even just checking to make sure the pads are set after a straight becomes much easier.
Which then leads to what the real question should be: What are the best brake pads for you?
Which is right up there with "what is the best tire" a sticky sports tire or a sport\touring tire....... the only way to get an answer is to honestly asses how you ride the bike and what you need it to do.
So what is "best" for brakes also gets the answer "Depends on how you ride".
I would suggest running a HH set of pads in the front and a GG pad in the rear.
From there you need to ask:
Do you do most, if not all, of your braking before you get to the corner then roll it in?
If so the less expensive pads are just fine and in most cases you would never notice any difference between them and the more expensive options.
Do you trail brake?
If so, you might want to give the pricey bits a try.
Other than that, run whatever makes you sleep the best at night.
The stock pads work well but have a GG friction rating. This is very easy on the rotors but gives limited stopping power.
Though I will say I perfer to run a GG pad in the rear caliper to give a bit more "feel" and keep the rear from locking up quite so easy.
So the common mod is to go to a HH rated pad in the front.
Of the HH pads there are 2 basic categories.
You have the $35-$40 group and then the group that cost twice as much, if not more for a set.
The less expensive pads work well and have greatly improved stopping power but some folks can find them grabby or lacking in "feel" in that there is not a lot of modulation to be had.
When they grab, they grab hard. This is called a "High Bite" pad but some would say it is taken to an extreme with this class pad.
Then you have the pricey pads. What you are paying for is better backing plates and a different pad formula.
The thicker backing plates prevent the pads from flexing under hard braking and the different pad compound gives all the stopping power of the less expensive pads but allows you to modulate the baking force much easier.
So depending on how you ride this can be handy. Trail braking or even just checking to make sure the pads are set after a straight becomes much easier.
Which then leads to what the real question should be: What are the best brake pads for you?
Which is right up there with "what is the best tire" a sticky sports tire or a sport\touring tire....... the only way to get an answer is to honestly asses how you ride the bike and what you need it to do.
So what is "best" for brakes also gets the answer "Depends on how you ride".
I would suggest running a HH set of pads in the front and a GG pad in the rear.
From there you need to ask:
Do you do most, if not all, of your braking before you get to the corner then roll it in?
If so the less expensive pads are just fine and in most cases you would never notice any difference between them and the more expensive options.
Do you trail brake?
If so, you might want to give the pricey bits a try.
Other than that, run whatever makes you sleep the best at night.
02-07-2018, 01:03 PM
#20
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Yeah, I know that I am asking for opinions on a very subjective topic. However, on a recent shakedown ride of the SH, there is no way I would trust the stock brakes and trail braking going to the track as is. So based on reading other threads and for the sake of experimentation, I ordered a set of the Versah RJL pads. They were pricey, but cheaper than a new bike, or a visit to the ER. So thanks for all of the input everybody.
As soon as I get my F4i master cylinder and calipers at the end of the week, I will mount the whole system with the Vesrah RJLs and see what the improvement is.
As soon as I get my F4i master cylinder and calipers at the end of the week, I will mount the whole system with the Vesrah RJLs and see what the improvement is.
02-07-2018, 01:39 PM
#21
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Yeah, I know that I am asking for opinions on a very subjective topic. However, on a recent shakedown ride of the SH, there is no way I would trust the stock brakes and trail braking going to the track as is. So based on reading other threads and for the sake of experimentation, I ordered a set of the Versah RJL pads. They were pricey, but cheaper than a new bike, or a visit to the ER. So thanks for all of the input everybody.
As soon as I get my F4i master cylinder and calipers at the end of the week, I will mount the whole system with the Vesrah RJLs and see what the improvement is.
As soon as I get my F4i master cylinder and calipers at the end of the week, I will mount the whole system with the Vesrah RJLs and see what the improvement is.
The F4i master cylinder and calipers loaded with Vesrah RJLs using Core Moto SS lines provided more bite and better feel (subjective opinion of course) than stock and exhibited no fade while tracking at Circuit of Americas
02-07-2018, 04:05 PM
#22
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SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
Personal experience and cited qualified expert opinions are always welcome here.. Personal opinion stated or implied as fact, or qualified expertise opinion will most often be called as what it is... personal opinion based on no expertise, no qualified testing under controlled conditions, just observations and opinion, what you read or think you were told by others.
I have some of the first and none of the latter, don't claim to be an expert, raced with any, cooked dinner for any or other wise know any "brake pad" experts..
So Id say pads are relatively cheap and a common wear item,,,so try both and make your own opinion.
In street use, I find very little difference in clean surface disks and clean new beded in pads from EBC or Vesrah RJL
Ive used both on brand new EBC wave rotors, my personal SH and many dozens of bikes I've installed them on. Never had a problem, never felt a great difference between the two.
I ordered some Zcoo last week, will wait for summer to install them, but as my EBC rotors are far from needing replaced, they will just get cleaned, scuffed and new pads installed making a real compare impossible.
I have some of the first and none of the latter, don't claim to be an expert, raced with any, cooked dinner for any or other wise know any "brake pad" experts..
So Id say pads are relatively cheap and a common wear item,,,so try both and make your own opinion.
In street use, I find very little difference in clean surface disks and clean new beded in pads from EBC or Vesrah RJL
Ive used both on brand new EBC wave rotors, my personal SH and many dozens of bikes I've installed them on. Never had a problem, never felt a great difference between the two.
I ordered some Zcoo last week, will wait for summer to install them, but as my EBC rotors are far from needing replaced, they will just get cleaned, scuffed and new pads installed making a real compare impossible.
02-07-2018, 07:46 PM
#23
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Thanks for the input E.Marquez.
I took the bike for a pre-changeover reference run up a local canyon today and with a two finger pull, there is no braking for about the first third of the lever action. Then, I can pull the lever back to my remaining two throttle fingers before any moderate stopping power happens. This is after a bleed with the MightyVac with new DOT4 fluid and SS lines, but stock MC, calipers and pads of unknown origin from previous owner.
Looking forward to the new setup.
I took the bike for a pre-changeover reference run up a local canyon today and with a two finger pull, there is no braking for about the first third of the lever action. Then, I can pull the lever back to my remaining two throttle fingers before any moderate stopping power happens. This is after a bleed with the MightyVac with new DOT4 fluid and SS lines, but stock MC, calipers and pads of unknown origin from previous owner.
Looking forward to the new setup.
02-08-2018, 10:20 AM
#24
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Pads of unknown origin is not a good thing. Much maligned as they are, the stock brakes with good pads are decent. Not fantastic but not scary bad.
But yeah, the F4i setup is better and there are more pad options.
But yeah, the F4i setup is better and there are more pad options.
02-08-2018, 08:56 PM
#26
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My vote is that vesrah rjl are superior. Ive raced with the ebc hh for a long many years but only cuz rjls were not available.
When I tried rjls on my sv it was amazingly stronger and more progressive. I would always choose them on the track but as stated all out power is not the end all on the street as much as the track.
I ran the f4i brakes right up until my 600rr front end. Worth every penny for the cbr brakes
When I tried rjls on my sv it was amazingly stronger and more progressive. I would always choose them on the track but as stated all out power is not the end all on the street as much as the track.
I ran the f4i brakes right up until my 600rr front end. Worth every penny for the cbr brakes
02-18-2018, 08:45 AM
#30
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My vote is to try EBC HHs on one caliper, Vesrah RJLs on the other and see which way it pulls under hard, straight line braking.. Oh, never mind, there's just on wheel.
I do however have a serious opinion on motorcycle specific oil, use it!
I do however have a serious opinion on motorcycle specific oil, use it!
