gearing change?
02-26-2014, 09:14 AM
#1
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SuperSport
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gearing change?
after some searching on here and on the internet quite a bit i cant really find what im looking for.
someone was telling me on here that i should change my gearing for track riding. ive been reading elsewhere about it but its mostly about gsxr 600's and such and i wanna know about the SHawk specifically.
ive been going to buttonwillow raceway and am going again at the end of march. but the group of guys i ride with also ride at thunderhill, bigwillow, chuckwalla, streets of willow etc...
so whats a good gearing to start with? and what are the effects, like going down in the rear vs goig up in the back? i deffinatley noticed at the track that i was sorta between gears in a number of turns, like too fast for second but not fast enough to keep a good RPM in 3rd for exmple
if theres a thread here already bout changing gearing for the track just point me there please. all ive seen on here is about gearing it for touring and lower cruising RPM's so i guess im trying to do the opposite. less top speed but a better use of the gears and RPM's on a track
someone was telling me on here that i should change my gearing for track riding. ive been reading elsewhere about it but its mostly about gsxr 600's and such and i wanna know about the SHawk specifically.
ive been going to buttonwillow raceway and am going again at the end of march. but the group of guys i ride with also ride at thunderhill, bigwillow, chuckwalla, streets of willow etc...
so whats a good gearing to start with? and what are the effects, like going down in the rear vs goig up in the back? i deffinatley noticed at the track that i was sorta between gears in a number of turns, like too fast for second but not fast enough to keep a good RPM in 3rd for exmple
if theres a thread here already bout changing gearing for the track just point me there please. all ive seen on here is about gearing it for touring and lower cruising RPM's so i guess im trying to do the opposite. less top speed but a better use of the gears and RPM's on a track
02-26-2014, 11:17 AM
#2
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Superstock
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A popular change on many bikes is 1 tooth less on the front, and 2 teeth more on the rear.
The effect on the front sprocket is opposite of that on the rear. That means if you go down 1 tooth on the front, it's similar to adding teeth on the rear.
1 tooth on the front generally equals around 3 teeth on the rear, since your front is ABOUT 15 teeth, and the rear is ABOUT 45 teeth. A 1 to 3 ratio, give or take, since bikes differ with different size sprockets. So if you drop 1 tooth on the front and add 2 teeth on the back, it's about the same as adding 5 teeth on the back sprocket.
Dropping teeth on the front or adding teeth on the rear has the effect of lowering your overall top speed, but increasing your acceleration (and reducing mileage). This is mostly good unless you have so much acceleration that you're shifting gears like mad on the slower parts- since each gear now has a lower top speed.
Adding teeth on the front or dropping on the rear has the opposite effect- each gear now has a higher top speed, but it takes longer to get there.
There is a limit to what size sprockets you can use on any given bike. It's not good to go TOO small on the front sprocket. I generally stay with a 14 or 15 (or larger) on the front, but in some applications, people use smaller sprockets. The front sprocket is easier to change than the rear sprocket, and affects the chain length less.
Things are going to change depending on what track you are racing at. If you were at Road Atlanta, you'd need the top speed because it's a horsepower track with fast speeds. Similar to the big Willow Springs track, you need speed. If you were racing at TGPR in Alabama or Roebling Road in Savannah, (or Streets of Willow) you'd never get to use all that top speed, so a lower gearing would be better... until you find yourself shifting gears too much. Like so many things in riding, it's all a trade-off.
Read more about it here.
Help with figuring it out with a gearing calculator here and here.
The effect on the front sprocket is opposite of that on the rear. That means if you go down 1 tooth on the front, it's similar to adding teeth on the rear.
1 tooth on the front generally equals around 3 teeth on the rear, since your front is ABOUT 15 teeth, and the rear is ABOUT 45 teeth. A 1 to 3 ratio, give or take, since bikes differ with different size sprockets. So if you drop 1 tooth on the front and add 2 teeth on the back, it's about the same as adding 5 teeth on the back sprocket.
Dropping teeth on the front or adding teeth on the rear has the effect of lowering your overall top speed, but increasing your acceleration (and reducing mileage). This is mostly good unless you have so much acceleration that you're shifting gears like mad on the slower parts- since each gear now has a lower top speed.
Adding teeth on the front or dropping on the rear has the opposite effect- each gear now has a higher top speed, but it takes longer to get there.
There is a limit to what size sprockets you can use on any given bike. It's not good to go TOO small on the front sprocket. I generally stay with a 14 or 15 (or larger) on the front, but in some applications, people use smaller sprockets. The front sprocket is easier to change than the rear sprocket, and affects the chain length less.
Things are going to change depending on what track you are racing at. If you were at Road Atlanta, you'd need the top speed because it's a horsepower track with fast speeds. Similar to the big Willow Springs track, you need speed. If you were racing at TGPR in Alabama or Roebling Road in Savannah, (or Streets of Willow) you'd never get to use all that top speed, so a lower gearing would be better... until you find yourself shifting gears too much. Like so many things in riding, it's all a trade-off.
Read more about it here.
Help with figuring it out with a gearing calculator here and here.
Last edited by FTL900; 02-26-2014 at 11:28 AM.
02-26-2014, 01:35 PM
#3
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SuperSport
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So since stock is 16 41 a good start would be 15 43? And what effect would that have on the chain length and wheel base? If anything I'd want to shorten the wheel base. I don't want it longer. I'm fine with it remaining the same tho.
02-26-2014, 02:25 PM
#5
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It's what I run.
You can see how far forward I am in the adjustment with a low mileage chain.
Last edited by E.Marquez; 02-26-2014 at 02:37 PM.
02-26-2014, 04:44 PM
#8
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The lower gearing is FUN.. in response to your question " how's the acceleration"
02-26-2014, 05:03 PM
#10
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02-27-2014, 08:10 AM
#12
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Yeah, I learned that after putting a 39 on the back. Now it revs so low that I cruise on the freeway in 4th gear, and then my mileage is shot!
02-27-2014, 09:06 AM
#15
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Well I disagree with your opinion.. but that's based on my use, area I ride, and personal preference.. Reality is, how and where YOU use your bike,, I might share your opinion.. Only the OP can decide whats best for him.
Have a look at this site
Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator
Select Honda, then SuperHawk/RC-51, then 98-2005 SH..
Load gearing..
That will place the OEM 16/41 in all three spots..
change the 16/41 to the -1+2 of 15/43 in one spot and the other common change 15/41
Then look at the ratios in each gear and the final drive ratios.
Might make more sense to you what the different gearing changes does in each gear, and over all.
Have a look at this site
Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator
Select Honda, then SuperHawk/RC-51, then 98-2005 SH..
Load gearing..
That will place the OEM 16/41 in all three spots..
change the 16/41 to the -1+2 of 15/43 in one spot and the other common change 15/41
Then look at the ratios in each gear and the final drive ratios.
Might make more sense to you what the different gearing changes does in each gear, and over all.
02-27-2014, 09:28 AM
#17
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Superstock
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 458
I like the 15/43 on my bike right now for the riding that I'm doing (putting the bikes on the trailer to the mountains so I don't square my tires on the superslab, riding for a few hours, trailer home)
but where I'm riding even with the short gearing I don't normally go past 4th and keep it right between 3-6k It lets me have a few gears up and down to choose from and keep the bike in a comfortable rev range for me power wise to ride it. I'm not worried if I get into a small loose patch that the rear is going to break out too bad on me and I've enough power to use some engine braking and enough to power out of the corner smooth as well. It also keeps the sound at an acceptable level where I don't think I'm drawing too much attention.
This summer when I start comutting more and put a dual compound set of tires on the bike (I'm thinking Pilot roads or Conti-motion I think they were at the moment) instead of my Q3's I will probably adjust the gearing back up on the countershaft sprocket to the 16T
but where I'm riding even with the short gearing I don't normally go past 4th and keep it right between 3-6k It lets me have a few gears up and down to choose from and keep the bike in a comfortable rev range for me power wise to ride it. I'm not worried if I get into a small loose patch that the rear is going to break out too bad on me and I've enough power to use some engine braking and enough to power out of the corner smooth as well. It also keeps the sound at an acceptable level where I don't think I'm drawing too much attention.
This summer when I start comutting more and put a dual compound set of tires on the bike (I'm thinking Pilot roads or Conti-motion I think they were at the moment) instead of my Q3's I will probably adjust the gearing back up on the countershaft sprocket to the 16T
02-27-2014, 09:57 AM
#18
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Well I disagree with your opinion.. but that's based on my use, area I ride, and personal preference.. Reality is, how and where YOU use your bike,, I might share your opinion.. Only the OP can decide whats best for him.
Have a look at this site
Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator
Select Honda, then SuperHawk/RC-51, then 98-2005 SH..
Load gearing..
That will place the OEM 16/41 in all three spots..
change the 16/41 to the -1+2 of 15/43 in one spot and the other common change 15/41
Then look at the ratios in each gear and the final drive ratios.
Might make more sense to you what the different gearing changes does in each gear, and over all.
Have a look at this site
Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator
Select Honda, then SuperHawk/RC-51, then 98-2005 SH..
Load gearing..
That will place the OEM 16/41 in all three spots..
change the 16/41 to the -1+2 of 15/43 in one spot and the other common change 15/41
Then look at the ratios in each gear and the final drive ratios.
Might make more sense to you what the different gearing changes does in each gear, and over all.
02-27-2014, 02:49 PM
#19
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+1 I love it as well ;-) at list I don't forget now that I have a 6th gear :-)
03-04-2014, 07:59 PM
#21
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After posting this I was messaged by a member here who has been extremely helpful to me through various modifications. I looked at the gearing calculator at Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator and based on a lot of people running the 15/43 setup, I input those numbers to see what it gave me. I thought wow ill deffinatly go with 15/43 vs stock 16/41 which is what I currently run. The speeds and RPM relation seemed great.
But oh was I fooled. This helpful hand urged me to take a closer look at the numbers in the charts. I really like that site because you can also account for tire sizes and input up to 3 different setups for which to compare. Turns out after looking more at the chart that 15/43 is a pointless setup. Take 3rd and 4th gears for example. The speed your traveling with stock 16/41 setup in 3rd gear at 4500 rpm is 53.9 mph. Now with the 15/43 setup, the speed in 4th gear at 4500 rpm is 57.1 mph.
So essentially running the 15/43 compared to stock is making your 4th gear the same as what your 3rd gear use to be. This pattern is repeated all the way through the rev range. So with 15/43 u make ur 1st gear unusable and your 6th gear slow considering it's the same thing as ur 5th use to be. I just wanted to pass this on as it was very helpful and stopped me from wasting money on a pointless gearing change.
But oh was I fooled. This helpful hand urged me to take a closer look at the numbers in the charts. I really like that site because you can also account for tire sizes and input up to 3 different setups for which to compare. Turns out after looking more at the chart that 15/43 is a pointless setup. Take 3rd and 4th gears for example. The speed your traveling with stock 16/41 setup in 3rd gear at 4500 rpm is 53.9 mph. Now with the 15/43 setup, the speed in 4th gear at 4500 rpm is 57.1 mph.
So essentially running the 15/43 compared to stock is making your 4th gear the same as what your 3rd gear use to be. This pattern is repeated all the way through the rev range. So with 15/43 u make ur 1st gear unusable and your 6th gear slow considering it's the same thing as ur 5th use to be. I just wanted to pass this on as it was very helpful and stopped me from wasting money on a pointless gearing change.
03-04-2014, 08:13 PM
#22
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After posting this I was messaged by a member here who has been extremely helpful to me through various modifications. I looked at the gearing calculator at Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator and based on a lot of people running the 15/43 setup, I input those numbers to see what it gave me. I thought wow ill deffinatly go with 15/43 vs stock 16/41 which is what I currently run. The speeds and RPM relation seemed great.
But oh was I fooled. This helpful hand urged me to take a closer look at the numbers in the charts. I really like that site because you can also account for tire sizes and input up to 3 different setups for which to compare. Turns out after looking more at the chart that 15/43 is a pointless setup. Take 3rd and 4th gears for example. The speed your traveling with stock 16/41 setup in 3rd gear at 4500 rpm is 53.9 mph. Now with the 15/43 setup, the speed in 4th gear at 4500 rpm is 57.1 mph.
So essentially running the 15/43 compared to stock is making your 4th gear the same as what your 3rd gear use to be. This pattern is repeated all the way through the rev range. So with 15/43 u make ur 1st gear unusable and your 6th gear slow considering it's the same thing as ur 5th use to be. I just wanted to pass this on as it was very helpful and stopped me from wasting money on a pointless gearing change.
But oh was I fooled. This helpful hand urged me to take a closer look at the numbers in the charts. I really like that site because you can also account for tire sizes and input up to 3 different setups for which to compare. Turns out after looking more at the chart that 15/43 is a pointless setup. Take 3rd and 4th gears for example. The speed your traveling with stock 16/41 setup in 3rd gear at 4500 rpm is 53.9 mph. Now with the 15/43 setup, the speed in 4th gear at 4500 rpm is 57.1 mph.
So essentially running the 15/43 compared to stock is making your 4th gear the same as what your 3rd gear use to be. This pattern is repeated all the way through the rev range. So with 15/43 u make ur 1st gear unusable and your 6th gear slow considering it's the same thing as ur 5th use to be. I just wanted to pass this on as it was very helpful and stopped me from wasting money on a pointless gearing change.
Your opinion based on no rear experiences that 6th gear is "too low" is at best a guess, and only accurate to you and your personal needs/ wants/ I find 6th gear just fine .. more so that with 15/43 6th gear is almost unsueable, as the bikes doe not have the motor needed to use it well.. The VTR is DOG in 6th gear.. hardly even capable of pulling RPM limit in 6th.
Point is.. what you guess at as negatives, others have found in actual use, it works very well.
03-04-2014, 09:03 PM
#23
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SuperBike
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Menifee, CA
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Marquez, what you overlook is 6th is a dog as it's an overdrive designed for relaxed cruising in top gear. Which is why I do 16/43 now 6th is closer to 1:1 and will pull. The rest that Scooby figured out is accurate, Of course you can use first gear but for how long before your reaching for the sky!?
03-04-2014, 09:24 PM
#24
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SuperBike
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I run a 15/42 and i wouldn't go back. Some may want a longer ratio for better 6th gear cruising (freeway), but the bike is so fun to turn i rarely find myself on the superslab.
If riding backroads and/or canyons a shorter gear ratio is much appreciated.
James
If riding backroads and/or canyons a shorter gear ratio is much appreciated.
James
03-04-2014, 09:33 PM
#25
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SuperSport
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Why do you think it makes 1st gear "unuseable" ?? I use mine many times every ride.. in fact I use it EVERY time I start out from a stop. seems to work just fine for me.
Your opinion based on no rear experiences that 6th gear is "too low" is at best a guess, and only accurate to you and your personal needs/ wants/ I find 6th gear just fine .. more so that with 15/43 6th gear is almost unsueable, as the bikes doe not have the motor needed to use it well.. The VTR is DOG in 6th gear.. hardly even capable of pulling RPM limit in 6th.
Point is.. what you guess at as negatives, others have found in actual use, it works very well.
Your opinion based on no rear experiences that 6th gear is "too low" is at best a guess, and only accurate to you and your personal needs/ wants/ I find 6th gear just fine .. more so that with 15/43 6th gear is almost unsueable, as the bikes doe not have the motor needed to use it well.. The VTR is DOG in 6th gear.. hardly even capable of pulling RPM limit in 6th.
Point is.. what you guess at as negatives, others have found in actual use, it works very well.
well i guess i made it sound like a waste of time. what i mean is why would u really do that if ur just moving speeds an RPM's up a gear. ur basically doing the same speed and RPM in 3rd that you use to do in 2nd so i really dont see WHY? im not saying it doesnt work well but what makes it so? your not getting different speeds at a given RPM. ur just now in 4th instead of 3rd.
im all for being wrong. im more about real world, seat of the pants type analysis over numbers and charts, so if there is a benefit id love to know it. as you can tell from my OP, im not 100% satisfied with stock gearing. i was just a little confused when i saw 15/43 in relation to 16/41.
although i do have to say ill have to re-evaluate the gearing situation after i get my lightened flywheel
Last edited by jscobey; 03-04-2014 at 09:38 PM.
03-04-2014, 10:28 PM
#26
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For my 2 cents, 15/43 is too short(low). You should start by dropping one tooth in front. Only changes WB a tiny bit and gives you a taste of shorter gearing.
For me I have tried many combos buy 15/41 was good enough. I like to maintain relaxed rpm on 80mph highway stints. Any shorter and it felt like I was winding it out.
Try the one too since it requires no chain change.
For me I have tried many combos buy 15/41 was good enough. I like to maintain relaxed rpm on 80mph highway stints. Any shorter and it felt like I was winding it out.
Try the one too since it requires no chain change.
03-04-2014, 11:05 PM
#27
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i think thats what i might end up doing eventually when my sprockets and chain are due to replace. just debating weather i want to go -1 in the front and increase wheelbase but add weight to the front wheel, or go +2 in the rear and decrease wheelbase but take weight off the front wheel.
03-04-2014, 11:53 PM
#29
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like i said ill wait to see how the lightened flywheel mixes things up and see where im at with the gearing. if anything just -1F or +2R. i commute on mine as well as back roads and recently started tracking it. so as much as id love to set everything up for tracks and canyons, ive got to compromise somewhere. although ive always got a little more bias towards "spirited" riding since thats where i get the real enjoyment of my bike
03-05-2014, 05:26 AM
#30
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I did this as well for one of my several gearing changes finding what worked best for me.. and it did just what is suggested 15 on the front, gave me an idea of what shorter gearing would be like..
I liked the result so much I ordered a 15/43 set of sprockets a few months later...and I like it even more.
So for ME and how I RIDE to include 80-120 MPH freeway blasts lasting 20 hours straight.. the 15.43 is a better choice..My point exactly..
The gearing you chose works for you.. that does not make it "too Tall" or unseable or wrong.. just different and not what others prefer.
The Rider making a gearing choice needs to understand the options and chose based on the facts...perhaps even the personal opinion of a fellow rider that rides the same types of roads, the same way, with the same goals.
