still working on the upper...it'll be red with black & silver accents. hoping to finish it tomorrow?

I'll have some better pics of everything when done.
Also need to flush the coolant (dangit), and replace with Engine Ice.

I'm probably not following the proper threads for this....sorry.

I tried a Rust-O-Leum Professional Enamel 'Safety Red'.
It is a really close match to 'Winning Red'...which was nice.


here it is.

got back from Autobahn and a 3-day trackday.
WOW was that HOT !! sat/sun/mon = 93/97/93 degrees!!

I had a great time.

AND...I noticed an issue...with the single radiator up front.
It seems that a single radiator (an original SH rad with the the radiator cap), will work fine for most circumstances....or riding conditions. It could not keep up with cooling in this kind of heat and running high R's on the track.

Sunday (hottest day) I had to come off track because the temp gauge was right at the edge of the "H" - a couple of times. Monday I did the same a couple times.

after I changed to engine ice, I did burp the system and I did see a few air bubbles come out.

when I did a trackday with ambient temps in low 70's, the needle never went past 1/2 way??

SO....I think I may need more surface area for cooling,....at least for running on hot days.

I found a couple threads about front rads, but not a lot of details about before/after...etc.
I found a VFR750 front rad mod in here....and maybe one other.
----------

trouble-shooting I did ('98 SH with stock gauges):
gauge moves, so that sensor is functional
fans kicked in at about 2/3 - 3/4 temp, so that sensor works
radiator starts cool and gets hot, so I think the thermostat is good.

am I missing something, as far as trouble-shooting?

I think the only solution would be a bigger (area) or deeper/thicker capacity OR find all the missing parts to go back to stock??

I bought an ex500 radiator for the front but thats in addition to the 2 sides. It is very difficult to find room on the bike, which is why honda went with the sides. HRC does offer a front rad in their race kit for the RC51 but TMK it is unobtanium.

Alot of guys I know that race hawks (not super) use CBR & GSXR rads cuz they are huge but curved and tapered to help them fit.

Also are you running a bigger oil cooler? That fits easily at the stock location.

spoot....you had good anti freeze, I assume 20-50w or 10-40w oil and your thremo and fan was working properly. Other than that, make sure your rad is clean externally, not clogged with bugs so that you can see light through it.

Other than that i wouldn't worry about the high temps which are to be expected under the conditions you experienced. The antifreeze has a high boiling point if mixed properly and the oil is efficient at those temps. No problem. If you are concerned, change your oil afterward and compare the feel of it to new oil by rubbing it between thumb and finger. If it's shot, you can feel the diff in lubricity.

As long as you are not boiling over and you oil is high quality, you're good to go. I know it's scary when you get into those higher temps, but it's mostly psychological because its not typical to see your needle over there.

If you are really concerned, fit a accurate oil and water temp gauges, find out what the tolerance levels are from the manufacturers, and then you may be able to console yourself a bit. I think you'll find that temps of 260+ are tolerable.

Oh and how do you like your galfer 1375s?

smokin = I have a buddy with a hawk GT. he is using a different rad, but he seems to have a bit more room compared to the SH. he doubled his cooling capacity w/o doubling the dimensions. I'm running the stock oil cooler....I am going to look into the bigger ATV version, for sure.

I'm using Repsol full synth oil. 10w-40.

Engine Ice for coolant.

Nath = The 1375's are great. it was so warm out, I didn't have to 'get heat in them' to work right off the bat. very satisfied with them so far! I will also inspect for wear now, I have 4 days on them. rad looks clean. Fans do work, but only came on after it gets blazing hot.

I did also notice I had a squishy brake master the last two sessions on monday....so, I'll be flushing that fluid again....RBF600 was in there, so, it's weird to think I wore it out in 3 days.

the JD shock was working well - My Pirelli Rosso Corsa's had nearly perfect wear each day. 1st day they had a little tear, but I set the pressure to 32/32 for day 2 & 3, then they cleaned up nice and looked darn near perfect!

I have some vids to crunch and post soon....
I'll get the track pics in about 12-15 days from now....I'll post those too.

The beacon at the track wasn't pointed properly, so I only got like 3 laps counted the whole weekend. :(

I run a zx7 oil cooler.

oh good gawd!!
you want me to put a kawi part on my Honda???

last time I did that, I met the deck at Putnam.

:p

1375s are great.......yeah, my sentiments exactly so far.

brake fluid........i rarely flush system, just empty the reservoir, clean any residue with a Q-tip, and refill. I do this often and always when it even starts to darken a little. Basically, it's always clean. Usually no need to bleed if you don't touch the brake lever. Takes a few minutes.

squishy feel......If you do flush, as the last part of the bleeding process, quickly loosen/tighten nut holding 2 lines at reservoir and see if that helps feel. Mine seems to require this.

32/32 tire pressure.....seems very high for track days esp at those temps. I run 28r/31f cold on Q2s for twisties for much cooler temps than your track days were.

every tire is different.
I started with 30/30 on the first TD with 70' temps and I had slight tearing.
then at ACC - a buddy that had been using this same tire for some time was doing 32/32. when I did that, they cleaned up and looked perfect.

Q2's have a wide range from what I hear, in usable pressures. that tire has been used with many "A" group riders, which is a real testament to the Q2. YMMV.

what ever works for you Spoot, but like I said, seemed a little high cold for rear. I don't know if you have diablos or not, or whether you are talking hot or cold pressures, or what the track temps were, but i was curious and pulled this conversation off the link below:



Yep, here's the answer I got when I asked the pirellis rep for the Diablo Rosso Corsa recommended cold pressure...

Street; 32-FRONT 30-REAR
Track; 29-FRONT 27-REAR

BTW, very happy with the tires so far!

Phil, what are your thoughts?


Quote:
Originally Posted by phil954
I have just put a new pair Pirelli Diablo Corsa Rosso's on my S1000 and was wondering what tyre pressures I should use on both the road and track, so I emailed Pirelli UK and this was their reply......

hello Phil,

thankyou for your inquiry.

for your bike the pressures that we recommend for the road are the ones that are
set in your bikes handbook,

for the track however we recommend setting them to around 28/29 psi on the rear
and to around 30/32 psi on the front.

regards

pirellimoto GB


Tire Pressure - Page 7 - BMW S1000RR Forums: BMW Sportbike Forum

I was doing cold pressure.
ambient was 80 in the am, 90 by noon, 93 for the high on saturday&monday. 97 high sunday.
track temp - dunno. mostly sunny, but some thick clouds on occasion. so, I would guess the surface was hot.

so I may have been a little high according to the info you found.
now...here is the wierd thing....

- tire wear was near perfect after each session.

'wear' is a result of 2 things. pressure & suspension setup.
my suspension (rear) is a JDM F4i street build. tweaked/set by TSE in WI.
tire pressure dictates the squishing/unsquishing of the sidewall to generate heat.
too much heat and you can get hot-tear. too little heat and you get cold tear.
(rebound/compression&spring rate can do stuff too, but lets leave that out)

as I try to figure this all in my head....if I was 3psi too high, but had "perfect" wear, I wonder what wear woulda been like running at the "recomended" with the same conditions?

logic would say, the tire would have generated more heat and possibly start to get hot-tear?
now, there is probably a range of ambient temps that the tire will function and show proper wear.....so, maybe I was within that range?

with Pirelli recomending those settings, what ambient temp is that based on?

You should really worry less about "perfect wear" (whatever that is) and just run recommended pressure. You are way more concerned with proper footprint and contact patch than wear pattern. You only think about changing pressure based on temp if its like 45-50*.

FWIW in 11 yrs of racing I never had the dunlop tech tell me to vary pressure by more than a pound or 2 and that was only to avoid chatter. I have always run 29r 32f. From 50* to 103*.

smokin - and it's possible that the Dunlop will perform in all ambients as you state.
I'm not sure how often you go through tires or if you have a money tree in the back yard....but, I am just trying to ensure that I dont shag a set of tires for no good reason.

I ran lower pressure at my last TD and I had a little tearing.
This TD I ran a little higher pressure and had no tearing.
each day I had no issues with grip. I felt no slides.
I understand that lower pressures will provide larger contact patches and provide more grip.

do you use warmers? do you use street/dot's? if you are running 209's or 211's, then we're kinda talkin apples and oranges, no? race tires have carcasses for racing. one pressure fits all, in a sense - as far as I've experienced listening to the tire guy at the track (for a single model of tire....not ALL brands of race tires). :)

now, although I got a head-ache watching this as there is a LOT of info to digest, I liked this vid from Dave Moss.
Dave Moss Unsprung: Tire Wear | OnTheThrottle.com

here is my tire wear.

I bet this guy wasn't happy about his tire wear after one day...

drop those pressures to at least 27r/ 30f and shred the hell out of those tires now! now!...........ya hear me boy! haha

Seriously, i understand the need to conserve tires relative to cost because i have limited resources myself, however, if you choose to go to the track, do it right. The track is the place to tear those fuckers off and if you feel no slipping/sliding, you ain't track riding. You may be street riding on the track though. How do you know where the limits are if you are not experiencing some indicators that you are stressing the tires/suspension/ your abilities/etc., as in skipping/slipping/sliding/juddering or just scaring the f out of yourself just to get that adrenalin jacked? If you just want to ride around the track at 80%, how do you improve, evolve, go faster, learn what your and your bike are capable of ? Get up there to 95% and tear those rubber bastards to hell. That's your mission!

I'm not critical of your efforts in a destructive or negative way, in fact i respect your getting out there where many and indeed most will never go because they don't have the balls, the money or maybe because it's just not in their genes. Just giving you some food for thought. If you can benefit, fine, if you think i'm full of shit , that's fine too.

It's great to know and take good care to make certain your suspen/tires. etc are safe and functionally performing well so that you feel confidence in your horse, but when you roll onto track, it's time to change roles from a pensive, thorough mechanic to a pissed-off racer and test you and your horse to the limits or dam close to them.
It's hard to explain and maybe harder to heed, but it's just an attitude that you can or choose not to embrace, but it's my way and that's all I can offer you.

haha, lol....no prob guys...I enjoy a good conversation and a chance to learn. trying to take it all in.

ya, I guess I have a little too much self preservation at this point. I am progressing, just taking the slow route.

I got an email back from the midwest distributor of Pirelli...he says 30f/29r as a baseline...adjust after checking hot - right off the track.
DiabloRacers.com says 30-34F hot / 25-28R hot. So, that's a little off from what my local guy says.

SO....I guess I'll drop some pressure and keep trying to wick it up.
:draggin:

I promise you guys that not one WSBK guys is concerned about tire wear other than how the bike handles as they go off later in the race.

Cold tearing is surface stuff. One session can get rid of it so its no big deal.

I would recommend not going nuts over hot pressure unless thats all you are using. If you try to monitor both you will drive yourself nuts.

sounds like a plan spoot! let us know how you make out.

I mounted Accosato master in a "normal" position, and slightly down in position. it used to go almost straight forward (between throttle cables), so this should be a nice change. I had to lift my fingers a bit when tucked...now should be more natural to reach for it.

New Galfer brake lines are on the master, I need to rotate the banjos at the caliper side to fit correctly, I routed the lines a little different, so now I need to rotate them.

Calipers are getting rebuilt. One had a slight drag when free-spinning the front wheel. One caliper is done. I've never done that before, so it was a bit of a challenge and learning process. :)
Also, 8 seals is only enough for one caliper (fyi)...I need to order another whole set :duh:

Replaced clutch line with a Galfer. the OE I think was going bad as the fluid got black after 3-4 trackdays...? This task went quick and easy. Bled the line and seems to be fine. The line no longer bumps the gauges at full lock, so I can move the bar forward a tad more, too = yipee.

Now, I need to fab a bracket so I can mount the bigger oil cooler. I got the trx450(?) cooler as a couple others here have done. Not sure of I want to mount in the OE position or keep it forward of the exhaust pipe...? forward position is prob best, huh?

I got the oil cooler mounted sideways, on left side of bike. had a buddy help fab the hangers for it.
I used the same rubber lines that were on the bike, but it turns out when I pushed the lines onto the metal tube, I did not realize that I created a "flapper". This is a small tear on the inside of the rubber line. This allowed for the oil to pressurize and push through the nylon threads in the middle of the rubber line, then as the oil got hot, it bulged the outer part of the line and burst.

While I was heading down the middle straight at Road America!! I was blowing smoke like mad and oil blew all over the underside of the bike, the back of the bike AND my rear tire! I had 2 quarts of oil in the lower when the corner worker signaled me off at T5. Thankfully I got the black flag and got off the track safely!
AND - NO oil landed on the track!! <phwew>

So, I replaced the lines with better lines and double-hose-clamped each end of new hose. The next trackday, no issues. :)

Here's a vid at Blackhawk Farms a couple weeks ago. I had a personal best on Saturday, then another on Sunday :D

Here are some pics

http://www.photo-spoot.com/misc/bhf6_8_13/IMG_1311a.jpg
http://www.photo-spoot.com/misc/bhf6_8_13/IMG_6300a.jpg
http://www.photo-spoot.com/misc/bhf6_8_13/IMG_4318.jpg
http://www.photo-spoot.com/misc/bhf6_8_13/IMG_4983.jpg
http://www.photo-spoot.com/misc/bhf6_8_13/IMG_5190.jpg
http://www.photo-spoot.com/misc/bhf6_8_13/IMG_5342.jpg
http://www.photo-spoot.com/misc/bhf6_8_13/IMG_7378.jpg
http://www.photo-spoot.com/misc/bhf6_8_13/IMG_9190.jpg

Looking Good Man

Thanks, Stumpy. :)

Yeah, on that note, you have a great collection of great pics. Seems like the photographers have figured out they sell 10 times the pics to trackday guys than racers so really do them well.

Nice shots.

Gron4 Photography took these pics. I've supported them for years. They also treat me well with large numbers of pics :)
I used to shoot a lot at the same events, but gave my photos away (didnt want to pay the track's vendor fees). I slowly learned that people would take my pics for free, then not order from the Gronfor brothers...I felt bad taking business from them, so I told them I would put my camera down if they were shooting.

They've been published in Motorcyclist a number of times, and RRW. Keep an eye on articles by Aaron Frank, he usually uses Gron4 when he's in the area.

I did 2 trackdays last month and the bike temp got to about 3/4 dial. (single rad mod)
Outside temps were upper 70's.
Last year on the SH I did a 1:29. Last month I set a personal bets at BHF of 1:28, then the next day a low 1:27.
I had been doing 1:30's for years.

Last weekend I did 3 days in a row - Gingerman, Grattan x2.
Friday night was upper 80's (only 2 sessions) - temp stayed out of the red.
Sat/Sun low 80's. Temp never got in the red. So, I think as long as it low 80's, a single rad might be OK. Last year all my trackdays were in the 90's and the temp constantly soared into the red zone and looked like it would overheat so i cut my sessions short.

New oil cooler mod seems to be 'OK'. Not sure if it is helping, but maybe.

Sunday a.m. was in the 50's. track temp was cold. I could actually feel the tires giving a little on the cold surface (and cold tires) for about 3-4 laps. By 2nd session, the sun was out and things warmed up nicely.
I have been running lower pressure in the Pirellis (as suggested earlier here), and the tires have felt fine. Right off track, they were really hot to the touch and they looked good. 28-29 front / 26-27 rear cold.

I was chasing an RC51 on Sunday. I really tried to get him, but he just pulled like rocket on the straight. Then, I'd catch him on the brakes as he was starting his turn-in on t1, stick on his tail the rest of the track...then off he went on the straight again. Lots of fun. I did a 1:38.18 in the "I" group with STT. No idea how that time relates to anything, but I felt like I was giving 'bout everything the hawk had to give, the rest of the lacking was me. :)

I did another day at Blackhawk Farms 8/14.
I was able to do some more personal bests. I did a 1:26 early in the day, then later a 1:25.18.

Air temp was mid 70's, used same tire pressures they did great. Bike temp was never over 3/4.

Here's a vid of my PB. This is the slower "I" group with Motovid.
BHF 8-14-2013 Orange group / session 5 - YouTube

Hey what is that on the right side of the faring? mount for your timer? you going to the crud run. I have been feeling a lot better and will have my bike ready for it want to go. any other hawks out there want to go should be fun.

I'm also down for the Slimey Crud Run. Would be cool to have three Superhawks!

:(
my hawk isn't streetable.

The mount on the front is for a GoPro camera. I also have one on the rear fender, looking backwards.

Dibs, eh?

Well...it's for sale. you in?

------

I'm doing some 1:22's at BHF - 2:50 at Road America. Got bumped to faster Intermediate group with Motovid earlier this year.
Oil cooler is fine. Front rad is working OK. Didn't have such hot days this year.
Freshened the suspension and got a re-valve on the shock. Loving the Rosso Corsa tires. 8 trackdays on a set, still had some tread on rear.
Accosoto brake master finally came into it's own...5-6 different full system bleeds, one was a power-bleed by a track vendor. Last thing was a putting in new 1375 pads and pushing the pistons back in...then...brakes are firm as all getup and stayed that way throughout a whole trackday :D yipee!

Just ran my first track day earlier this month and it was at Blackhawk. I have an 05'. Running a click over 1:30. Raced there for years in a car but sure was different on a bike. I plan on being at Autobahn the weekend of the 27-28th. I plan on some suspension work over the winter. Currently it's a stock bike with Galfers and HH pads. I just put on a mosfet as well. I currently have PP3's. I'd like to talk with you about your mods if we wind up doing the same day somewhere.

I'll be at BHF on the 24th. Stop in if you have time.
I had a scheduling conflict for ACC :(

otherwise, I can usually be found on wiriders.com.
tons of TD guys and good place to hang out. free.

I wasn't sure if the 24th was an open day or Pridmore only. I will be there is the yellow group. Probably skip ACC. I'll look for you.

any of the pridmore clinics are just one of the sessions. and they usually combine them with another running group.

I'm getting a slot now for green, so I should be there. We've been setting up in T4-T5 area with WiRiders banners hanging on the ez-ups.
See ya there!!

Been a while since I did an update:
On my last trackday (last year) I was able to get down to a few 1:22's.
Typical times are 1:25's.

Tire wear is great. Suspension is doing great. Bike is great.

Just installed a Shorai battery.

Saturday, I go to get a race license. I might run the SH, but I intend to run a friends RD350 that recently got a full restore to it's former glory...a race bike.

I didn't want to clutter the F.I.L. mod thread as this is unrelated....



Here are the dyno charts. My SH actually hit 106 (last chart)
http://photo-spoot.com/misc/SH/hp_torq.jpg


Here is the HP vs Speed chart
http://photo-spoot.com/misc/SH/hp_af.jpg


and, the HP in 2nd-6th gears. This is interesting as I only seem to get 140 on the front straight at Road America. Then I might get 140-142 mph on the T3-T5 straight, even when I shift to 6th - I think it needs more road?
http://photo-spoot.com/misc/SH/gear_speed.jpg