Roebling Road 2/27
 

The bike's pretty much ready and I've got my fingers crossed for good weather this weekend in Savannah. Anyone else happen to be going to Roebling Road this weekend with STT?

have a good time there big D. Hope the weather cooperates. remember to put that head down by the side of the front and look ahead cause we'll be scrutinizing those pics. hahahaha:D

LOL...I'll be paying LOTS of attention to form this year! :D

the weekend was good. a bit chilly, but nice to be back on the track.

The only fly in the ointment was the attitude of the track management.

Here's the feedback I sent to STT:
"We arrived Friday evening about 6 PM, registered for Saturday, and dropped off my trailer/bike to save some time Saturday morning. Saturday we arrived at the track at about 6:55 am. There was a line of trailers going into the parking lot waiting to register. Knowing that I already had gone through the process, myself and a few other cars diverted around them and pulled up to the gate. At that time, the old lady running the gate got very rude asking if we thought we were special or something and indicating that we were obviously too good to wait in line. We tried to explain that we registered the prior night and only needed to get in, and she said that didn’t matter and we should have been in line behind all the trailers. That was again delivered in a VERY rude way.

Once inside, I got things set up and began prepping the bike for the day. I was with a small group that was a bit out of the way. Fortunately, I myself did not start my motorcycle, but a couple other guys near us did. They were rudely reprimanded by a “gentleman” who apparently manages the track and threatened with a $100 fine. I have never been treated so badly at a track in the year I’ve been doing this. There was no politeness in his voice at all. My wife and I were both shocked at how badly he treated the group around us.

I do recognize and understand that this is not an STT problem, and want you guys to know that I enjoyed you and the team you had there. I simply want you to hear/understand how some of your customers were treated. Good money is being paid to these tracks, and in my opinion, Roebling is not worth being treated so badly. SO…I want you to know that I’ll not be attending another of your track days at RRR, nor with any other company, unless I hear of some leadership changes."

well that surely sucks, but aren't you going to tell us about the important part......the riding????

yeah where the pics damnit?

pics lookin good dave. you seem to be looking ahead for the turns better. the only thing you may want to try is getting your weight more forward by moving you head to the mirror position on turns.
how were you times comparatively? feel better or worse? handling/tires?

i dont see any pics

look for the yellow SH burning up the track on the log in page. that's our dave

The riding was good. The track is just a bit technical, but similar in feel to CMP. In fact, I think I like CMP better. it feels a bit more open than RRR did.

Check the albums Jay. I posted them there.

I felt better with the form. My arms were a bit sore after the day of riding, so I think I was hanging on too much with them and not enough with the legs and body. One of the guys there was running 1:10s and someone said that was the track record. I ran a couple 1:28s, so I felt good about that. By the end of the day I was figuring out how to better carry more speed into the corners and let the tires scrub it off instead of brakes.

The tires gripped just fine and I never felt a slide at all. They look somewhat ragged now though, so I'm wondering how many track days I'm going to be able to get out of them. I may switch back to 2CTs though only for longevity. I really think my get-off was due to poor throttle control and not the tires themselves. Road Atlanta is next and I'll try to make it through there on these tires and then see.

sounds like you're doing well. Track riding, that is hanging off, is tiring as hell. That's why it helps to train: endurance/cardio, core strength, etc. What's strange to me is that some people underestimate the need for physical fitness and its benefits for riding in terms of the ability to concentrate and remain focused for long periods of time. Yeah, anyone can get out there and rip for short bursts and then sit back and veg for a while to recover. Maintaining focus over time requires physical strength/endurance, and when you get tired and keep pushing, that's a good recipe for a crash.
holding on with your arms not good. that's for squids. get your ass in shape so you can use your core strength and keep soft hands on the controls.

Last year(after 40 years of riding, hahaha), I started using freddie/nick riding stlyle that uses trail braking to modulate suspension for better control of turning and I think if you haven't learned it, it's certainly worth a try to see if it works for you. It's definitely great for the street and the track as well. The only negatives are that it takes a while to train yourself to multitask as your doing a lot of things at once, but you definatly cannot weight or hold on tight with your hands to use this type of riding if done correctly. The other negative I found for street riding is that it tends to encourage higher speed in corners because your often using throttle and brakes simultaneously, kinda like a rheostat but with multiple controls instead of one. So subconsciously if your attention is on finding new turn points, you forget you're still on the throttle-kinda like the toyota thing,hahaha, which translates into faster into blind curves than previously, not good. The hope is that being already on the brakes will provide shorter safer stopping distance, but I'm really trying(honest, I am) to discipline myself to slow more on blind curves and over hill crests. It's difficult because the nick/fred style of trail is exhilirating and inspires confidence because of the increased control while turning. Some members here have expressed less than enthusiastic reception to this style, but for me, there is no question that it's a new level of understanding of how to get through the corners with more speed and more control, and being more in touch with how lightly compressed suspension increases the contact patch of front tire, affects geometry, and allows mid-turn change of line less tentative.

You're doing a lot of track, so you can push the limits more than if you were on the strictly street, so I am interested in your feedback if you decide to master these techniques.

By the way, I missed what brand/model tires you're using. What pressure at what temperature. Your not feeling any slip or slide?


https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...=trail+braking

yeah, trail braking may be a skill to tackle. I did notice that after braking I had to be gentle on the throttle to not upset the front end in the turns in prepping to throttle back up....smoothly, of course. :)

I'm running a Power One front with 30 pounds, and a Power Race Medium Soft on the rear with 24 pounds. those were the setups that the tire guys at the track recommended. I was running 32/32 with the Power Pilot 2CTs.

thanks for the get back. ambient temp was? one way to tell what's happening is to check what press you have after you do some laps. Then you know what turns into what. If you keep some records you might be able to set em more accurately based on your own data. i'm surprised at 30 front(a little high), but never ran power ones.

I got Q2s now but want power pures next cause I'm a light unsprung weight freak, esp when it's centrifugal. If you decide to read the links on Trail Braking on that thread, and master them, I'd appreciate your feedback/opinions.



nathan

looking good. one thing you might try is to slide back in the seat some. that way you can get your knee locked on the outside of the tank. when you sit close to the tank your knee gets pushed out in the air. once i started doing this my arms were much more relaxed (not sore at the end of the weekend), and the knee started going down a lot more. ive also found tank grips to be essential on the superhawk.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs114...._2923570_n.jpg

As a relatively inexperienced track rider, I've just tended to stick with the pressures that they recommend. Any idea what the "hot" pressures should be?

Oh, and temps that day were about 58.

Thanks for the ideas Jay. I'll give that a try. There's a lot to think about out there on the track! :shock:

Are you going to VIR any time this year?

about 90% sure that i'm doing VIR with NESBA May 13th (North course, SED) & 15th (South course).

I'm hoping to do 5/15 South as well.

What I try to do for my rides is get to 29 or 30lbs max when tires reach temp or hot. they'll usually go up 4 to 8 lbs, depending on tire brand, ambient temp, etc.

for 58deg., i would put in 24lbs cold expecting to get to 28-29lbs hot. If it's really hot out, I would start with as low as 20-21. If you keep track of it by checking pressures when you come in, you'll get to know how much your tires will increase at various temps; but when you change tires, it could be different, so keep track and you'll get to know how much your tires are going to increase when they get up to temp.

So the goal for me is to stay under 30lbs hot, and whatever you need to start with to get there, you'll find out by record keeping.

it really depends a lot on the tire, there are some michelin race dots that suggest 22psi hot, then theres others that want 10lbs more than that. you trackside vender should be able to tell you everything you want to know about tire pressures

yeah, it was the vendor that suggested these starting cold pressures.

Here's another question.....tire warmers.....what's the real purpose of them? Is it to be up to temp when you first hit the track, or reduce the heat cycles, or both? As far as heat cycles go, what's the significance of that if I'm running a street tire? I'd think they are made to do multiple heat cycles, so should it really be a problem?

you might wanna look at this page for starters

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/402/49...-Shootout.aspx

I wish they had talked more about tire wear, particularly at a less-than expert level (read "slower"). LOL

If you keep the tire pressure too low where it is squirming, it will wear prematurely. If you run the pressure too high where it can't squirm at all, it will wear better, however traction will suffer as the the contact patch will not be optimal. You have to make a subjective judgement relative to your preference of grip or wear to some degree. My preference is optimum grip, that's why I try to have the hot pressure under 30lbs.

well, sounds like some trial/error time then. At RA I'll shoot for 32 hot and see how it performs for me. I can always drop a little out if I don't like the feel.

yeah it's trial and error for sure, and if you are consistently comparing your pressure numbers with tire performance, eventually it will turn from T&E to knowledge.

you pretty much answered everything right there. warmers on street tires arent necessary since they heat up relatively quickly on their own and arent effected by heat cycles. can you run warmers on them? sure, but keep in mind the operating temp for street tires are lower than race tires. and most single temp warmers get up to about 170, wich may or may not over heat the tires making them greasy and useless before you even roll a wheel on the track.
race compound tires are more effected by heat cycles, and they can be very hard when cold.

ok, so for my Power One, Power Race combo, would warmers be necessary or advisable? I ran a day at Roebling without them. The reason I ask is because that's seven heat cycles and I'm wondering how they will hold out when I go to Atlanta next month.

i'm not really familiar with michelins so i couldn't say. i dont know as much about race tires. but from what ive heard even modern race tires can handle quite a few heat cycles.