Hard to start 996
12-10-2010, 02:45 PM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 20
Hard to start 996
Hey guys- I have a 2004 with 3000 miles that is a &^%$#
to start. My simple mind had me convinced it was because the last owner had installed a Dyno Jet kit and the bike just needed new exhaust. Well I installed the new Yosh cans (plus it's really cold her in NC) and she will not fire. Same as the stock exhaust it seems like it's flooding. I usually can start it with holding the trottle open just a little..Choke is a no go too...bike will have no part of it.
I read on a previous post issues with these babies starting and someone had a simple suggestion. Air screw adjustment etc...
Any advice on where to start I would appreciate....
btw...she almost started and spit a little so it's not spark!
to start. My simple mind had me convinced it was because the last owner had installed a Dyno Jet kit and the bike just needed new exhaust. Well I installed the new Yosh cans (plus it's really cold her in NC) and she will not fire. Same as the stock exhaust it seems like it's flooding. I usually can start it with holding the trottle open just a little..Choke is a no go too...bike will have no part of it.I read on a previous post issues with these babies starting and someone had a simple suggestion. Air screw adjustment etc...
Any advice on where to start I would appreciate....
btw...she almost started and spit a little so it's not spark!
12-10-2010, 02:57 PM
#2
Brooks' Cycle Centre'
Back Marker
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Centreville, VA
Posts: 166
Biggest culprit is dirty carbs. If you are bit mechanically inclined, it's not too difficult. Most chickens start in the cold with no problem, if the carbs are clean. Full choke and if the bike is doing its job, it should start right up. Another issue is water in the tank. If the drain in the tank is clogged, water gets in there and overflows in the tank.
Water in the tank?: Easy enough to find out. draw some gas from your main fuel line into a mason jar (or any clear jar capable of holding gas). You don't need much, just a cup or so. then add some known good gas and see if you get liquid separation. If you do, then that means you got some water, or something else in there.
A lot of people try putting quarts of that seafoam snake-oil bullshit in their tank to try and fix delay issues. Never works. Smell the gas and see if smells more like Grandpa's homebrew than gasoline. Now, gas additives don't separate from gas, so just be aware of that.
Carb cleaning: The biggest culprit in bikes not starting is the slow jet. This is the same jet that controls idle and transition from low to higher rpm. Once the bowl are off, take a look at the condition of the inside. If it's crudy as hell, you need to do a full cleaning, if it looks clean, then you just need to punch the slow jet. you will notice one long skinny brass jet with slots in the top. That's the slow jet. When you take her out, don't just blow air through it, you need to punch it. The best thing to use is a bristle from a wire brush. A heavy duty wire brush, not one of those wimpy ones. Punch the jet, take the main jet out and blow air through that bugger. Then blow air through the hole that the slow jet was screwed in to. After you reassemble, make sure you turn the bloody petcock back on. I've made that mistake before. lol. Now, being that you have a yoshi can on, you may need to put different main jets in. Best thing to do is get a new jet kit and follow the instructions. They only cost about 90 bucks.
This is a pretty quick version of a carb cleaning. If you need more in depth help, let me know and I'll write something with some more detail.
As a matter of fact, being that my chicken has been down for a few months, I may have to do this as well, so if you wait a week, I may just do a "how to" write up for it.
Good luck, brotha!
Water in the tank?: Easy enough to find out. draw some gas from your main fuel line into a mason jar (or any clear jar capable of holding gas). You don't need much, just a cup or so. then add some known good gas and see if you get liquid separation. If you do, then that means you got some water, or something else in there.
A lot of people try putting quarts of that seafoam snake-oil bullshit in their tank to try and fix delay issues. Never works. Smell the gas and see if smells more like Grandpa's homebrew than gasoline. Now, gas additives don't separate from gas, so just be aware of that.
Carb cleaning: The biggest culprit in bikes not starting is the slow jet. This is the same jet that controls idle and transition from low to higher rpm. Once the bowl are off, take a look at the condition of the inside. If it's crudy as hell, you need to do a full cleaning, if it looks clean, then you just need to punch the slow jet. you will notice one long skinny brass jet with slots in the top. That's the slow jet. When you take her out, don't just blow air through it, you need to punch it. The best thing to use is a bristle from a wire brush. A heavy duty wire brush, not one of those wimpy ones. Punch the jet, take the main jet out and blow air through that bugger. Then blow air through the hole that the slow jet was screwed in to. After you reassemble, make sure you turn the bloody petcock back on. I've made that mistake before. lol. Now, being that you have a yoshi can on, you may need to put different main jets in. Best thing to do is get a new jet kit and follow the instructions. They only cost about 90 bucks.
This is a pretty quick version of a carb cleaning. If you need more in depth help, let me know and I'll write something with some more detail.
As a matter of fact, being that my chicken has been down for a few months, I may have to do this as well, so if you wait a week, I may just do a "how to" write up for it.
Good luck, brotha!
Last edited by superchickencornermonster; 12-10-2010 at 03:02 PM.
12-10-2010, 11:33 PM
#3
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Central Fl.
Posts: 530
NC? December? Six year old bike? How old is the battery? You didn't say if the bike always had the symptom or it had come on gradually or how the bike started when you first obtained it. Just for the exercise start it with a set of jumper cables from a car with the ignition OFF.
If it fires easily, I would suspect the battery is weak or there are charging issues. If I'm wrong the cost is zero, If I'm right, then take the battery for a load test.
A weak battery would exhibit the symptom you described, anyway, before a carb teardown eats up a lot of time and effort, eliminate the cheap or easy fix.
I've gone looking for zebras when it was actually horses hooves that I heard.
If it fires easily, I would suspect the battery is weak or there are charging issues. If I'm wrong the cost is zero, If I'm right, then take the battery for a load test.
A weak battery would exhibit the symptom you described, anyway, before a carb teardown eats up a lot of time and effort, eliminate the cheap or easy fix.
I've gone looking for zebras when it was actually horses hooves that I heard.
12-11-2010, 05:14 AM
#4
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 20
Great advice from both...I didn't mention that I had the very same symptoms with the stock exhaust and again I blamed it on the DynoJet kit that the previous owner installed. In the summer I didn't have as much of an issue as I do when it's cold.
In October while in the NC mountains it wouldn't start early one morning when it was really cold. After trying to start her the battery finally went. I had a guy in a car give me a jump and it started right up.
I am great jetting a 2 stroke vintage bike but don't want to try on a carb like this one. I think I will try a new battery first.
THANKS guys!
In October while in the NC mountains it wouldn't start early one morning when it was really cold. After trying to start her the battery finally went. I had a guy in a car give me a jump and it started right up.
I am great jetting a 2 stroke vintage bike but don't want to try on a carb like this one. I think I will try a new battery first.
THANKS guys!
12-11-2010, 08:44 AM
#5
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,697
the thing about these bikes is little changes with carb settings make for big changes in how it behaves so it is a particularly difficult bike to tune.
I would actually suggest that you check the throttle position sensor and adjust it to 500ohms if needed. A sync of the carbs and check the mixture screws are out far enough usually between 1.5 to 2 turns if I remember correctly. If the bike has sat for a while and the carbs are clogged for best results a carb clean but actually if you can get the bike to run even seafoam will help but it requires the bike work for the most part to be able to really do its thing. I would just suggest getting your carbs clean and set at a known baseline for your setup and go from there, chances are all will be well. I could do all this in 1.5 hrs time but if you have never done this expect to spend a good long afternoon doing all the work. I wouldn't skip any of the steps as doing all of them while the carbs are off will be the most efficient. Hell if you have a webcam setup we can schedule a time and I will walk you through the hard stuff.
I would actually suggest that you check the throttle position sensor and adjust it to 500ohms if needed. A sync of the carbs and check the mixture screws are out far enough usually between 1.5 to 2 turns if I remember correctly. If the bike has sat for a while and the carbs are clogged for best results a carb clean but actually if you can get the bike to run even seafoam will help but it requires the bike work for the most part to be able to really do its thing. I would just suggest getting your carbs clean and set at a known baseline for your setup and go from there, chances are all will be well. I could do all this in 1.5 hrs time but if you have never done this expect to spend a good long afternoon doing all the work. I wouldn't skip any of the steps as doing all of them while the carbs are off will be the most efficient. Hell if you have a webcam setup we can schedule a time and I will walk you through the hard stuff.
12-11-2010, 11:27 AM
#6
Senior Member
Superstock
Superstock
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 293
I would actually suggest that you check the throttle position sensor and adjust it to 500ohms if needed. A sync of the carbs and check the mixture screws are out far enough usually between 1.5 to 2 turns if I remember correctly. If the bike has sat for a while and the carbs are clogged for best results a carb clean but actually if you can get the bike to run even seafoam will help but it requires the bike work for the most part to be able to really do its thing. I would just suggest getting your carbs clean and set at a known baseline for your setup and go from there, chances are all will be well. I could do all this in 1.5 hrs time but if you have never done this expect to spend a good long afternoon doing all the work. I wouldn't skip any of the steps as doing all of them while the carbs are off will be the most efficient. Hell if you have a webcam setup we can schedule a time and I will walk you through the hard stuff.
-R
12-11-2010, 11:38 AM
#7
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 20
New battery installed and it was still a bitch to start BUT it warmed up to 45 here today and I got it started (good news). More good news is that this seems to be much quicker with the Yosh cans (maybe it just sounds faster), BAD NEWS is that it wants to back fire coming off of throttle. Sounds like a damn Harley coming off the throttle....
I struggle with the dirty carb suggestion ONLY because I rode this thing most of the summer and into the fall probably putting on 1500 miles with only starting issues and never a backfire. I was rushed for time today but do have a K&N filter to install too. I know before the new Yosh cans it wouldn't run with the K&N ?? (Flat spot)
If I didn't mention that the DynoJet kit has the largest main installed now and I'm not sure where the needle is set because I haven't had it a part. Throttle response is incredible!
So with all that said I am open to suggestions on where to start. Does backfire mean to large of a main etc...
THANKS GUYS!
I struggle with the dirty carb suggestion ONLY because I rode this thing most of the summer and into the fall probably putting on 1500 miles with only starting issues and never a backfire. I was rushed for time today but do have a K&N filter to install too. I know before the new Yosh cans it wouldn't run with the K&N ?? (Flat spot)
If I didn't mention that the DynoJet kit has the largest main installed now and I'm not sure where the needle is set because I haven't had it a part. Throttle response is incredible!
So with all that said I am open to suggestions on where to start. Does backfire mean to large of a main etc...
THANKS GUYS!
12-15-2010, 06:09 AM
#8
Slacker
Superstock
Superstock
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 489
You might try something simple first, such as draining the float bowls. If even a little bit of water or some crud got into one of the bowls, it could cause a variety of poor running conditions. This would be an possible indication of rust in the gas tank.
Because the carbs have been worked on already it is important to check carb synchronization and adjust relative idle if needed. Then adjusting of the fuel mixture screws WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING to achieve the highest STEADY idle. You should be able to get the engine to idle well below 1000 rpm RELIABLY when done properly. Many people skip over this final crucial step since the required tool is pricey, and instead simply learn to live with a higher uneven idle and popping sounds. All tuning procedures must be done with the PAIR system disabled. Most of us leave it disabled to prevent future problems.
If after all that you still have the issue then opening the carbs for inspection/cleaning and jet/needle adjustments will be necessary.
Because the carbs have been worked on already it is important to check carb synchronization and adjust relative idle if needed. Then adjusting of the fuel mixture screws WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING to achieve the highest STEADY idle. You should be able to get the engine to idle well below 1000 rpm RELIABLY when done properly. Many people skip over this final crucial step since the required tool is pricey, and instead simply learn to live with a higher uneven idle and popping sounds. All tuning procedures must be done with the PAIR system disabled. Most of us leave it disabled to prevent future problems.
If after all that you still have the issue then opening the carbs for inspection/cleaning and jet/needle adjustments will be necessary.
12-15-2010, 06:17 AM
#9
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MN
Posts: 1,548
I would take the carbs off. something down low isn't right and you can figure out exactly what is in there and jet sizes, clean it.
Also, checking that the 'choke'/enrichment cables are hooked up properly and still working might be a big benefit - they're easy to get wrong and somwhat fragile, and can screw up the starting.
Unless its already jetted for it, I would stay away from an aftermarket filter - not worth the hassles of trying to get it right.
Also, checking that the 'choke'/enrichment cables are hooked up properly and still working might be a big benefit - they're easy to get wrong and somwhat fragile, and can screw up the starting.
Unless its already jetted for it, I would stay away from an aftermarket filter - not worth the hassles of trying to get it right.
12-15-2010, 06:35 AM
#10
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
New battery installed and it was still a bitch to start BUT it warmed up to 45 here today and I got it started (good news). More good news is that this seems to be much quicker with the Yosh cans (maybe it just sounds faster), BAD NEWS is that it wants to back fire coming off of throttle. Sounds like a damn Harley coming off the throttle....
I struggle with the dirty carb suggestion ONLY because I rode this thing most of the summer and into the fall probably putting on 1500 miles with only starting issues and never a backfire. I was rushed for time today but do have a K&N filter to install too. I know before the new Yosh cans it wouldn't run with the K&N ?? (Flat spot)
If I didn't mention that the DynoJet kit has the largest main installed now and I'm not sure where the needle is set because I haven't had it a part. Throttle response is incredible!
So with all that said I am open to suggestions on where to start. Does backfire mean to large of a main etc...
THANKS GUYS!
I struggle with the dirty carb suggestion ONLY because I rode this thing most of the summer and into the fall probably putting on 1500 miles with only starting issues and never a backfire. I was rushed for time today but do have a K&N filter to install too. I know before the new Yosh cans it wouldn't run with the K&N ?? (Flat spot)
If I didn't mention that the DynoJet kit has the largest main installed now and I'm not sure where the needle is set because I haven't had it a part. Throttle response is incredible!
So with all that said I am open to suggestions on where to start. Does backfire mean to large of a main etc...
THANKS GUYS!
Largest Dynojet main jet installed = bad idea, most likely unsync'ed carbs doesn't help much...
Adding new and untested stuff to a bike that isn't running right in the first place = monumentally bad idea... It's not making the work of figuring out what is actually wrong any easier...
Hard to start and popping when letting off the throttle is symptoms that something like just dropping a K&N in there won't fix... Go find the root of the problem first and work from there... Or just keep throwing money and new shiny parts at it for a while and see what happens... I'm betting you can make it even harder to start...
And as a side note... Trying to diagnose carb settings at 45F is beyond stupid... Nothing of what you do in terms of setup now will help you in the spring/summer with completely different temps... At this temperature any and all bikes have a hard time starting, especially if you still have the summer spec oil in there and a marginally aged battery...
You might find my opinions somewhat unwanted, but take a few steps back and look objectively at where you are going with this and what you want it too cost you in terms of time and new parts... Checking sync, cleaning carbs and such is a lot cheaper than new parts that won't help... It takes time and is a royal PITA to learn if it's your first time... But it helps...
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