Gold valves for the street
 

I do mostly joy riding and commuting with my Hawk as there aren't any tracks in South Jersey, altough I've heard one's on the way and the way I love sweatin and playin Gran Tourismo and Tourist Trophy on my playstation, I just know once and if the track is built, I'll have no choice but to spend all my money on leathers and go to the track every chance I get. Anyway my question is will gold valves and new springs make that much of a difference on the street? Considering this 2001 superhawk is my first sportbike the front end seems great compared to my '70 sportster, I just don't want to do alot of work and find out it would only benefit me at the racetrack since I can't go to one yet. Plus how tedious is refilling the forks with oil? I have a Honda service manual but they some times make things seem a little more involved than it really is.

If you ride fast on the street (i.e. not like a grandpa) then you would certainly feel the difference. It makes the riding experience more enjoyable. At least those are my experiences.

Hey whats with the grandpa comment; i am about to be a grandpa at 45 and i sure as heck can still twist the wrist with the best of them. Well maybe not with Nicky, but you know what i mean.

The gold valves, springs and better fork oil are a great improvement. A fork brace and sintered pads with SS brakes lines would also be a good upgrade for track day.

:thumbsup: Best money you can spend on a Superhawk and it doesn't have to cost a thousand as Race Tech and others would lead you to believe. As for doing it yourself, I don't have the time to become a suspension guru or really even the interest. I know suspension should work and how it should work to enhance the driver and the vehicle but that department is two doors that way>>>>>

Greg Nemish (our very own site admin) overhauled my forks over the winter and I could not be more pleased. It's a whole new bike now that the work is done and it's noticable from mile one! The machine glides over the asphalt instead of jerking and diving and packing my ass with every twig I run over. The bike is more nimble and managable with so much less effort it's amazing.

A friend's signature on another forum is, "The motorcycle knows how to turn, you just have to hang on!" is really where it's at!

After my brief peak into this murky (and immensely technical) world of suspension tuning I now understand why these professional setup guys make the coin they do! And be advised that none of them wanna talk! They all have their little secrets. I'm not even entirely or specifically sure of everything that Greg did to my forks but what a difference! It's probably the best "bang for the buck" improvement that you can do to the stock Superhawk.

He can post up more specifically to the parts/services/costs/procedures but I would not only do it again - the VFR is next.

This is the crazy part. When I originally got the viffer it made the Superhawk feel like such a pig in the handling department. Now the roles have been completely reversed.

There's lots of reading about the subject in the archives and I will admit that I was skeptical in the beginning but when I say New Bike - that's it! :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :kneel: :kneel: :kneel:

Talk about brown Nosing the site admin...Holy Crap, you get the award!!:nana: :bs2: :bs2: :thumbsup: :rotf: :rotf: :worthless:

You're an :asshat: 'Bout fell off my chair laughing! It did make a huge difference! Got those rotors on yet? I'm still laughing! Pays to be a nice guy right? Besides, if this friggin' weather would ever straighten out I could be out riding the bike instead of this keyboard! I would say that he probably put you up to this but now I can't wait for the rest of the rash!

yup so far so good, I am holding my breath until I get to do some serious riding....If all else fails, I am trading her in on the new 1098 duc...or a CBR1000rr...LOL....

Hey thanks alot guys for all your feedback! This forum thing is pretty cool. I dont know if I'll become a suspension guru, but but I think I'll be ordering my gold valves and springs pretty soon. Any suggestions for spring rates? I'm 6foot even and 190lbs in the winter and 180 in the summer and I pretty much ride solo. Thumper also brought up something I was thinking about, a fork brace. I saw a coerce brace on ebay a while back and thought about it, but once again is this a part with benefits for the street or mainly for high speed track stability. I don't drive like a grandpa, more like a grandpa being chased by the police. I drive fast but never faster than my angel can fly. I also have 3 credit cards and don't mind spending for safety and anything to make the bike perform better(until that visa bill comes in the mail). Any input would be greatly appreciated. Once again Thanks!!

I'm a little lighter than you so I am holding off on the brace until I do some track or get some new tires to work the front end harder. I'm still feeling the bike out too. I did other mods while I was at it - ten weeks in all so there are several new parameters. Race Tech has a spring calculator on their website take a look at it and if you're a little more on the aggresive side go up one notch. I do know that Greg did this because he quizzed me about my weight and riding style as part of the setup. He will probably post up later tonight after he gets his ass dug out of the snow. I understand he has traded the snow tires on the snow machine (corolla) for skis so it takes him longer to get home from the office now. His address has also changed. I understand it's now "third snowbank on the left."

Fuck guys, you wouldn't believe how much snow we got in the last 24 hours....3 goddamned feet of the white shit. Plowed my driveway twice and when I got home from work tonight only made it halfway up the driveway. I have snow piled 5 feet high on each side and little place left to put what's on there now!

Oh well, BACK ON TOPIC NOW.....

I revalved Doug's forks. Basically tore them all the way down, made them as close to Ohlins as I could using Showa valves (from a GSX-R600 no less!), new Silkolene oil, polished tubes, new Eibach springs for his weight, reduced oil lock effectiveness, etc. He did pay for it so it's not like he's brown nosing. I think the man is just happy that his bike rides like a real motorsickle now, not the wallowing, diving, POS that it was with stock suspension.

Re: Fork brace. I have one but I'm no lightweight at 230#, so cranking the bike from one side to another tends to wind up the forks and frame a little more than someone that would have a good career as a horse jockey...like Doug :nana:. On the street it will give the bike a little more steering "feel" since some of the fork flex is lowered. Is it necessary? No, but for $140 for the Coerce I think it's worth it. You probably won't feel much difference with stock suspension though.

Re: Gold Valves. I have those as well (compression only) and I've grown quite accustomed to them. I revalved my own rebound circuit recently, and I'm embarassed that it took so long to do my own bike. I've actually been concentrating on the 1000RR trying to get it to steer like the VTR - 'Taint an easy task either. I only had a chance to go on a short ride since the work and there was sand all over the road and about 45°F so I couldn't push it much, but the results are promising.

Really all you need for either street or track is a good revalve and a real shock (Fox, Penske, Ohlins). Some people say, "Oh, but I'll never use really good suspension on the street." Bullshit. You'll feel the effects more on the street than you will at the track, but only if you have a suspension tuner who knows what the "fork" he's doing (pun intended). You tune it for the street if that's where the rider will be most of the time. And demographics matters too because the streets up here in NY are much different than those in TX, FL, or CA. This is why I was really careful to ask Doug if his streets were smooth or bumpy. It matters. With forks (except for the new R6) you don't have high speed compression damping adjustment. You have to build that using valves and shims.

Suspension tuning is all about balance. Don't expect an enormous difference if you just get your forks reworked but still have the crappy stock shock. The front has to do the same thing as the rear and you have to balance your settings just right so the front doesn't fight the rear and vice versa.

If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask. I'll give you as much info as I can without giving up some of my "secrets", as Doug calls them. :)

Edit: And I'm also embarassed that Doug's forks feel better than mine do now, at least for sporty and track type riding. So Doug, you'd better play it up! hehe :) Like I said, mine are valved for bumpy ass backroads in upstate NY. I added more HSC to Doug's for smoother roads down where he is.

"Fuck guys, you wouldn't believe how much snow we got in the last 24 hours....3 goddamned feet of the white shit."

(sings) I'm going snowmobiling this weekend....I'm going snowmobiling...woohoo!!!!!!!!

Sorry guys, not trying to hijack the thread but I had to share my joy :)

Something looks different about this post..hmmm.what is it....hmmm...could it be that Someone deleted all the horse shit that was on it....:admin:

Greg, just for the record it was all Doug's fault...:nana:

Ok, so what if I don't know how my forks where set up?? I know that the words Gold and valves were said to me when I bought the bike, and it does not seem to dive like, hmmm well I don't know cause this is the first bike I have owned...rode the wifes little ninja for a few months, but that is my experience with street bikes....

Since this was done many years ago, do I need to consider a revalve?? I mean it's not like it feels bad, but then again how the heck would I know...

99' model with just over 7k on the odom...

I know the shock is stock, say that 10 times fast...

Oh and the sun is out here, still a little cold for me,,,mid 50's, but can I get a Woot Woot...no snow, no snow!!!! Looks like good riding weather just around the corner....8-) 8-)

Its been damn cold here in Buffalo, under 20 degrees for weeks and snowing of course - 8 degrees this morning on my way to work... had about 8" of snow out of yesterday's storm. The SH is hibernating until better weather arrrives although I did have it running the weekend before last :-D

Yeah once the weather breaks I'll have to crack open the tubes and play around a little bit.

Yup, somebody's been cleaning up in here after the last food fight! :bitchslap: My fault - my :asshat: It all started when we served Duc :crackup: :rotf:

Shawn, The upgrade on the forks and shock are well worth it IMO. The stock bike comes with parts that are for a wide range of riders the factory makes them for. So by installing parts designed for your weight you will be able to tune it better for track / street. Upgrade the brakes as soon as you can.

Good luck

I agree with the pack.... The springs and valves make a world of difference, most notably rough road lke here in the North East... bike went from rigid frame feel to actually controlable on the lovely potholed roads around here. Only complaint abouthte mod is.. once it's done, you notice how crappy the rear shock is!!! And that part is more expensive!!!

J.

That's true SlowHAWK and I think the only answer is to be patient and wait for one to come up through the forum, on ebay or at the track. I have heard from some guys that get in on trackside promotions at larger events and can buy new equipment at some great prices. I got mine from another member who was scaling back his mods so he could sell his bike less expensively. I know that if I had to come up with the printed pricetag for a new one it would be a whole year's worth of mods for one piece.

Ya thats true I been looking have been a day late or a dollor short. But e bays been good for me you would be shocked "pun intended" what you can get for a buck and shipping.

What about some baseline settings? I just bought my SH a couple of weeks ago, and the guy I bought it from claims to have had Racetech springs put in and had the suspension tuned for our common weight (175 lbs). Is there a baseline pre load and dampening setting to use? What kind of things should we look for prior to changing those settings? How much better (beyond springs) is it to do the valves?

Hey Nuhawk... I got a rear shock already... it took me 3 weeks after doing the forks to cave and buy one.... wound up with a Morwaki prepped shock I got off EBAY from a guy parting out an entire Morwaki Stage ?? kit for a VTR... It made a world of difference. The guy i got the shock from also had a full Titanium ehaust as well... it was beautiful... but for 1K was abit too pricey!!!!

very nice thread guys , I have to ask, to save money what would be the first thing to replace ? Gold valves , springs maybe the 10,000 $ ohlins superbike forks:( .But the more I read on the topic the more I see suspension issues . I would like to switch out the front end but if i can upgrade the current one for cheaper, the math is simple. any suggestions?

I guess it's true, Thumper, that you have to do them both. Since Greg's not telling I will, he charged me $225 to do the tear down, polishing of extenders, etc. etc. etc. all the guru shit and $100 for parts. This was the same deal that he had offered another member on the forum just a couple weeks prior to me asking if he would do mine. I picked up the shock here on the forum for $450 and it was basically new. I got the original invoice ($850+) to prove it. Freight from Texas to New York (2) and shipping the shock in from the East Coast was probably most of a $100. So for the sticker price of the aftermarket shock I got a professional high-performance suspension tuneup - front and back - customized to my bodyweight, driving habits, and Texas road conditions. If it would have come with a new set of tires it would have been a super deal :crackup:

At the time it was a kinda no brainer. Still is - especially after getting it all back together and riding it.

There's a custom set of full headers in my life somewhere - not sure which bike though. I looked really hard at making the investment (that was the war chest that I robbed to do the suspension) before I sent the stock header off to Jet Hot and bought the Jardines. I actually had the trigger pulled on a set that was $1300 (TBR) but it didn't go through - no longer available. That's when I decided to be sensible about my mods this winter and I'm glad it turned out that way.

The headers on my bike are ceramic coated like yours.

But I ceramic coated some Moriwaki Ti pipes instead of the stockers. (install grinning smiley here!!)

Guys, it wasn't I that cleaned up the thread. It was the other hardass moderator we have here. :nana: :)

Fundgh, I can't give you baseline settings for your bike because I really don't know what you have and how you ride. I don't give settings over the internet because they rarely work. You have to set up the suspension for YOU! This requires taking measurements and turning adjusters and actually riding the bike to get some feedback. No one thing works for everybody. You can't just take Nicky Hayden and put him on Sete Gibernau's bike even though they are the same weight and expect him to turn laps like he would on the 211V. Same goes for street riders. People expect different things from suspension and react to changes differently. I suggest you find someone in your area, be it a friend or a shop, that knows their shit about suspension and have them set it up for you.

Edit: What I CAN tell you is the sag numbers to shoot for if you want, and also how to get a good baseline on damping.

Well that would be a start. I know that 2 turns out, 1 click down, 4 lines exposed, slot at 90 degrees off of 12 o'clock, etc is useless. Setting sag would be a start, and that is done by adjusting spring pre-load, right? I have set sag (rear) on my dirt bike, but with all of that travel, its pretty easy. Any advice on that would be appreciated. A baseline for dampening is what I need. I was told that the tire I replaced (front) looked like the suspension was not adjusted properly. The previous owner said he had the forks set up by a local shop with racetech springs. So the information is contradictory. I just want to start somewhere, then get a feel for it and make changes as necessary.

Okay, get your sag set. If you're not doing aftermarket springs try for around 30mm sag front, 25mm rear. If aftermarket then closer to 35mm. This is the street setup.

Damping will have to be somewhat trial and error based on your riding style and the roads you ride.