SuperHawk Forum
 

Go Back   SuperHawk Forum > 1997+ VTR1000F SuperHawk > Technical Discussion
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

Technical Discussion Topics related to Technical Issues

Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-11-2008, 06:31 PM   #1
Junior Member
Squid
 
Timmybung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 26
Timmybung is on a distinguished road
pinhole leak in rear tire- usable/fixable?

Went to lube my chain today, warmed up my tire first and when I was crouched down in back I noticed a small piece of steel wire (literally the thickness of a pin, or super thin paperclip. Sure enough it had punctured enough to cause a leak- is this fixable typically? Should I just have the dealer replace (or put in?) a tube? The tire is just about brand new, would hate if I had to replace it for this-
__________________
'02 Superhawk, K&N, cored exhaust. SO happy to have a bike again- been ~4 years since I sold my two Ducks.
Timmybung is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 07:08 PM   #2
Senior Member
SuperSport
 
SlowHAWK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mount Vernon, NY
Posts: 813
SlowHAWK is an unknown quantity at this point
If it's in the center of the tire, you can have a patch put in it... I've had this done with no I'll effects. If it's in the sidewall, or really close to the side wall, you may be screwed, as that's an area of the tire most shops will not touch, as the bending of the tire is bad for the patch.

J.
__________________
1998 Honda VTR 996

RC-51 Front End (Forks/Brakes/Wheel), Race Tech Fork Springs, Morwaki Rear Shock, Jardine Hi-Mounts, Jet Hot Coated Headers and Midpipes, APE Cam Chain Tensioners, 900RR Rear Wheel, Galfer Steel Brake Lines, EBC HH Pads, Custom Undertail, Sargent Seat
SlowHAWK is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 07:24 PM   #3
Crash
Superstock
 
COLE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: miss.
Posts: 283
COLE is on a distinguished road
i 'd never patch if, mayb on a cruiser but never on a sportbike that travels at high speeds new tire is way cheaper insurance policy and no need 2 take chance, hey gas went down to $2.62 gallon i live in mississippi
COLE is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 08:16 PM   #4
Honducati
SuperSport
 
jbaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 809
jbaxx is on a distinguished road
Don't hesitate to patch it, especially a hole as small as you describe. Lots of folks are paranoid about repairing a tire, but I think the fear is unwarranted. I've patched many car and bike tires with no ill effects.
__________________
Jardine oval high mounts, Factory Pro jet kit, +4 advancer, Dual long velocity stacks, Trucker's CCT's, .95 kg fork springs, Galfer braided lines, EBC HH pads, Michelin Pilot Power tires, ZG double bubble, Mini short-stalk turn signals with clear lenses, Powdercoated 6 spoke wheels, de-stickered/reflectored, fenderectomy.
Stablemates: '04 Interceptor, '04 CBR1000RR
jbaxx is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 06:33 AM   #5
Member
Squid
 
shawkpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SE Indiana
Posts: 59
shawkpilot is on a distinguished road
You only have 2 tires. Why would you want to take the chance on a patch? Tire plugs on motorcycles are only to get you off the road and to the shop. How bad would you feel if something happened to that tire and you went down just to save a couple bucks?
shawkpilot is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 07:08 AM   #6
Junior Member
Squid
 
Timmybung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 26
Timmybung is on a distinguished road
Wow- talk about split down the middle- 2 for and 2 against (so far)
__________________
'02 Superhawk, K&N, cored exhaust. SO happy to have a bike again- been ~4 years since I sold my two Ducks.
Timmybung is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 07:16 AM   #7
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
 
Tweety's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,031
Tweety is on a distinguished road
Last tire I had , I had the same thing happen to me... small pinhole after 2-3 weeks... I patched it and ran it til the cord came out... Problem free...

But, as slowhawk said, it depends on where the hole is...
__________________
With me you get a package deal... The sarcasm comes free with the advice... If you wan't one or the other, use search...
<--- The result of OCMD... I gave up listing the mods in the sig...
Tweety is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 08:06 AM   #8
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
Thumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,014
Thumper is an unknown quantity at this point
Patch it or use a good Motorcycle plug kit if in the middle of near there.

I have done this on multiple rear tire and had no issues at all running tire to it end of life.

Now if it is on the front i am a little more squimesh there.

The patches and plugs for motorcycle are top notch and you will most likely forget that you even patched or plugged it after a few rides.

But, ultimately it is your decision.
Thumper is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 03:17 PM   #9
Senior Member
SuperSport
 
kai ju's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 520
kai ju is an unknown quantity at this point
As small as the hole is that you're describing it shouldn't be a problem patching it from the inside.
The alternative is an inside patch that has a plug attached to it, looks sort of like a mushroom.
Get the smallest one you can find and have somebody do it that has done it before.

All the above only applies if the hole is in the center third of the tire tread.
Anything outside that will see too much flexing of the tire's structure which may lead to the patch/plug failing.

Kai Ju
kai ju is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 04:15 PM   #10
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 4,211
VTRsurfer is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by kai ju View Post
As small as the hole is that you're describing it shouldn't be a problem patching it from the inside.
The alternative is an inside patch that has a plug attached to it, looks sort of like a mushroom.
Get the smallest one you can find and have somebody do it that has done it before.

All the above only applies if the hole is in the center third of the tire tread.
Anything outside that will see too much flexing of the tire's structure which may lead to the patch/plug failing.

Kai Ju
+1 on what Kai Ju said. I wouldn't use an external plug or "tire rope" except in an emergency to get home.
VTRsurfer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 06:18 PM   #11
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,398
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
I have plugged many tires in temps from 100 down to 20 degrees & ran them up to 150 mph, wheelies, track days, hard breaking, 2-up riding, rain touring, until the tire was dead. I have done this on many tires without issue. THousands of miles (my commute was about 1000 miles/ wk for a while). Anyway, plug it and check it initially to see each day if there is any leaking (spray with soapy h20). Once it vulcanizes its a done deal. If you are really paranoid you could do a mushroom patch from inside. Most of those guys that say dont do this are just more afraid of the unknown. I happen to know.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 07:33 PM   #12
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
killer5280's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,619
killer5280 is on a distinguished road
An internal patch is a safe, reliable fix.
A plug is a different animal, but I have done it like some of the others and ridden for thousands of (hard) miles until the tire was worn out. Not really recommended, but I must confess I have done it more than once.
killer5280 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 07:50 PM   #13
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 4,211
VTRsurfer is on a distinguished road
I've taught VOCATIONAL automotives, not high school auto shop, for 34 years. I'm not paranoid, I'm always thinking safety. I used to surf in Baja frequently, and I always carried a tire rope repair kit and a pump. I plugged with tire rope hundreds of times in the '70s and '80s. Since the early '90s we only use internal patches at school. I only had one of MY truck tire plug patches fail, no big deal, slow leak. But on 2 wheels it's a different matter. My wife got a nail in the rear tire of her first bike with only 600 miles on it. I had the dealer put an INTERNAL plug patch, and she rode on it for 8000 miles.

To ride a bike for thousands of miles at speed and heavy lean angles with an EXTERNAL plug is just plain stupid.
VTRsurfer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 08:24 PM   #14
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
cliby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MN
Posts: 1,546
cliby is on a distinguished road
Everyone's opinions on this are going to be all over the place and all based on their own, very limited, personal experience - it really has no bearing that somone has ridden on a couple tires that were patched without a problem. If the failure rate were even as high as 1/100 you are unlikely to have experienced a problem - so all the 'in my experience opinions' are worthless, no disrespect intended. when it comes to questions about rare events, you need big numbers, or the experience of someone who deals with big numbers in exactly the situation you are interested in. Do some research on the topic if you are really interested. And then the legal risks of it all make tire comp. and repair shops squeamish about doing it - so finding a good shop to do it is harder. Personally, if I could buy a patched used tire for 75% off (figuring in the cost or dismount/mount and patching) vs. a new one at full price, I'd buy a new one everytime - too much riding on it all for my tastes. Don't have it repaired by an amateur who's done less repairs than you have - and given the number of shops that can't even change a tire without marring the rims, there is a lot of poor workmanship out there. Despite the legal worries at least dunlop posts some guidelines for people, which is to their credit. this is what Dunlop says on the subject FYI from their motorcycle tires website (they advise keeping it under 80mph for the remaining life of the tire):

Motorcycle Tubeless Tire Repair Information


Dunlop recommends only permanent repairs performed from the inside of the tire, using a combination patch/plug method. Never attempt a repair from the outside, or inject a sealant, or simply use an innertube, a patch or a plug as a substitute for a proper repair.

Only a qualified tire repair shop or motorcycle tire dealer should perform repairs. Inspection of the tire and adequacy of repair becomes the responsibility of the person actually performing the repair and Dunlop does not warrant the results of a repair in any way. Combination patch/plug repair kits for use by the repair shop or dealer are available with accompanying instructions from companies such as:
Remarco Inc.
200 Paris Ave.
Northvale, NJ 07647
(201) 768-8100

Technical Rubber Co.
P.O. Box 486
Johnstown, OH 43031
(740) 967-9015

Tip-Top/Moto Combi Kit

Tech Uni-SealŪ Repair Kit (Also has been marketed by Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha with their own part numbers.)
NOTE: There may be suitable repair kits and materials provided by manufacturers other than those listed above.

Before any repair should be attempted, however, a tire must be removed from the wheel and thoroughly inspected. The following are minimum guidelines for the repairer:

Tires should not be repaired if any of the following conditions exist:
A tire has been previously injected with a sealant/balancer.
The puncture is larger than 6mm (1/4") in diameter.
The puncture is not perpendicular to the carcass.
The puncture is in the tire sidewall.
Separation of plies, tread separation, separation of any other components.
Cut or broken ply cords.
Broken or damaged bead wires.
Cut or damaged chafers (bead area).
Deterioration of the carcass inside the tire due to "run flat" or underinflation.
Cracks or other damage to the integrity of the inner liner.
Excessive wear - tire should have at least 1/32 of an inch of tread depth, excluding tread wear indicators.
Cracks in sidewall or tread.
Impact breaks, cuts, snags or gouges that penetrate the surface.
NOTE:
There should be no more than one repair in any quarter of the tire and no more than two repairs per tire.
The wheel itself must be in good condition. Any cracked or bent wheel, however slightly, may allow the loss of air and cause subsequent deflation of the tire.
Following repair, the valve assembly should be replaced and the tire/wheel rebalanced.
Speed should not exceed 50 mph for the first 24 hours after tire repair and the repaired tire should never be used at speeds over 80 mph. The repairer is solely responsible for instructing the motorcyclist as to the restrictions to be placed on tire use following repair.
In summary, NO form of temporary repair should be attempted. Motorcycle tire repairs leave no room for error and any doubt as to inspection or adequacy of repair should be resolved by discarding the tire.

Be sure to consult our Motorcycle Tire Limited Warranty, Care and Maintenance brochure for additional information regarding the use of Dunlop tires. Seek a qualified motorcycle tire repair center for more details. NEVER ATTEMPT TO REPAIR A DAMAGED TIRE WITHOUT THE AIDE OF AN EXPERIENCED TIRE MECHANIC.
__________________
Bill

No more superhawk.
cliby is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 08:53 PM   #15
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 4,211
VTRsurfer is on a distinguished road
+1. Cliby says it all. And Dunlop should know a little bit about tires, since they invented the pneumatic tire.
VTRsurfer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 12:51 AM   #16
Senior Member
Back Marker
 
Otto Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 227
Otto Man is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Otto Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
I have plugged many tires in temps from 100 down to 20 degrees & ran them up to 150 mph, wheelies, track days, hard breaking, 2-up riding, rain touring, until the tire was dead. I have done this on many tires without issue. THousands of miles (my commute was about 1000 miles/ wk for a while). Anyway, plug it and check it initially to see each day if there is any leaking (spray with soapy h20). Once it vulcanizes its a done deal. If you are really paranoid you could do a mushroom patch from inside. Most of those guys that say dont do this are just more afraid of the unknown. I happen to know.
x2. I've never had a problem, none of my plugs flew out when I was doing 150mph down the road. Can't speak for any higher speeds, as the hawk usually runs out of steam by then.

I've plugged the sidewall of one of my 38.5" boggers on my Jeep a few years back. Had a nice slash about 3" long. I put about 4 plugs in it, and it lasted the rest of the trip (about 3 days worth). I realize that scenario was a lot different, as I wasn't in traffic, or at speeds over 10mph. But, I continued to run about 8psi in it, and I can't lie - I was nervous watching that sidewall flex out over all sorts of terrain - sharp rocks, tree roots, old cars....everything. It never lost a pound of air. That experience really boosted my confidence in plugs. With enough cement, plugs, and if need be, sewing material, I can make any tire good enough to make it home. Good benifit growing up in WV.
__________________
'05 ZX-10
'99 Super Chicken, 16/43, integrated tail light
Otto Man is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 09:43 AM   #17
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,398
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
I agree with the idea of numbers of cases. My experience with motorcycling is that a large percentage of "knowledge" is based on the "unlce Fred" stories. Anytime you tell someone you are a biker they tell you about their uncle Fred who died on a bike.(or at least crashed one). I would be interested if anyone has FIRSTHAND experience with major dangerous failure of a properly patched tire.(not your uncle fred) I have seen dunlop tires desintegrate on the racetrack and catastrophicly FAIL (Matt Mladin comes to mind). So if their brand new race tires have failed on numerous occasions (100% documented), this may be why their lawers have forced their position on patches etc.(maybe, ya think?).
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2008, 04:44 PM   #18
Senior Member
Superstock
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 317
davidka is on a distinguished road
For a pinhole sized puncture like you've described there's no need for any patching. Get some Stan's No-Tubes sealant or Bontrager Super Juice (mountain bike tire sealants) and put a couple of ounces in the valve (remove the valve core) and re-inflate. The hole will seal permanently and the sealant fluid in the tire will continue to protect you from superficial punctures for the life of the tire. Most of this conversation pertains to larger holes.
davidka is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2008, 07:09 PM   #19
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
L8RGYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 1,313
L8RGYZ is an unknown quantity at this point
Hmmm, interesting about the sealant. Never done that. I have used multiple coats of bead sealer on the inside if the tire where a bent nail puntured the tire & the tip abraded the inside of the inner liner of the tire. Never had a problem with it.

Like several others here, I have patched 2 ot 3 tires myself. Always patched on the inside with what's called a patch/plug. The patch has it's own glue. You use a rasp to prepare the hole. Then you also scrape the liner of the tire & apply patch cement to the tire. Let it dry then push and pull the patch/plug thru the hole. Use a patch stitcher on the patch to bond ti to the liner of the tire.

Some people are fearful, but think of it this way. You could pick up a nail in a tire & have it go flat any time. So what's the difference. As long as you know it was competently repaired.

My current BT021 rear got a nail in it back in May, less than a month after I bought it. Puncture was 1.5" from the edge of the tread. I patched it & it's been fine for 5,000 miles of mostly fast backroad & mountain riding.
__________________
-
"I thought you'd be younger!" - my riding buddy's 6 year old

'98 Super Hawk - totaled 10/25/09. But at least I got to ride in a helicopter.
L8RGYZ is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2008, 07:09 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
bike, car, cruiser, damaged, flat, hole, hours, leak, motorcycle, pin, pinhole, rear, seal, superficial, tire

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:10 PM.



Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for SuperHawkforum.com content, comments, or advertising. SuperHawkforum.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse SuperHawkforum.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.

Advertising

SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.