Manual cct's
03-25-2012, 03:18 AM
#1
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Squid
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Manual cct's
So I installed my krieger cct's today, Everything went fine, only thing i question is how tight to get them, Ive seen several different tightening directions:
Finger tight the 1/8 turn out
Finger tight then slowly turn engine over while continuing to finger tighten bolt, then back off 1/8 turn
finger tight then back it off 1/4 turn
and finally finger tight then back it off 1/2 turn
I went with turning the engine over when doing it then 1/8 turn out (per krieger instructions)
anyone have any input on this?
Finger tight the 1/8 turn out
Finger tight then slowly turn engine over while continuing to finger tighten bolt, then back off 1/8 turn
finger tight then back it off 1/4 turn
and finally finger tight then back it off 1/2 turn
I went with turning the engine over when doing it then 1/8 turn out (per krieger instructions)
anyone have any input on this?
03-25-2012, 03:41 AM
#2
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finger tight then back it off 1/4 - 1/2 turn. Turn over when all reassembled by hand via the timing access hole to make sure nothing is miles out of place.
You can fine tune the tension if it squeals when running like a pig (too tight) - or too loose if it rattles when warmed up.
Remember to put some loctite on the thread where it goes into the CCT body to stop any oil leaks.
You can fine tune the tension if it squeals when running like a pig (too tight) - or too loose if it rattles when warmed up.
Remember to put some loctite on the thread where it goes into the CCT body to stop any oil leaks.
03-25-2012, 04:48 AM
#3
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Ill loosen it up another 1/8 of a turn, it seems most people go at least 1/4 turn out. And i did the thing with the loctite. its not rattling or squealing, but from what I understand a little loose is better than too tight
Thanks
Thanks
Last edited by masterhacker1989; 03-25-2012 at 04:52 AM.
03-25-2012, 09:13 AM
#4
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I measured mine with the chain guides off. I measured 1/4 inch of play in the chain the put it all back together and started it up. I haven't touched them since as they didn't make any noise. The amount of turns out isnt really your concern, its the amount of noise you get from them. The best way to adjust them is with the bike running loosen one at a time until it starts to rattle, then tighten them and stop when the rattle stops.
03-27-2012, 04:42 AM
#5
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Alright then I guess Ill do it that way instead, I still havnt re adjusted them since i installed them, havnt ridden it either except a quick once around the neighbor hood to check my timing wan everything was still OK after installing cct's
03-27-2012, 09:58 AM
#7
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Did you do the locknut up securely and use loctite?
03-27-2012, 10:09 AM
#8
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You can do the intial adjustment in any manner you choose... But the final adjustment should always be done with a running and warmed up engine...
Basically what you want the CCT's to do is keep the chain in check... You don't want it too tight, putting a load on the engine, and you don't want it too loose, being able to skip... Since no manual or instruction in the world can tell you exactly how tigth "fingertight" is, the final adjustment have nothing with this to do, really...
The initial adjustment is to make the engine safe to start, and if it's a bit off, it doesn't matter much really... However, rather a bit on the tight side than on the loose...
Once you have done the initial setup, start the engine and let it warm up... Since you aren't 100% on the tension, LEAVE THE THROTTLE THE EFFIN ALONE! Or you might need a new engine... Clear enough?! If your bike is prone to stalling on idle, adjust the **** by the throttle cables to raise the idle a bit to say 1300-1400 RPM for the setup... Doing this or carb sync or whatever to make sure the bike isn't finicky BEFORE messing with CCT's is a smart move...
When the engine is warm, adjust the CCT's until there is no rattle or noise... With the engine idling, it's completely safe to adjust the CCT's making them tighter or looser, nothing can skip as long as you keep your hands off you know what... The chain only skips when the engine speed increases or decreases rapidly, making the chain move... With a constant engine speed, the chain is keeping it self in tension and on the sprockets without any additional help, by movement alone...
The reason for adjusting like this is simple... When the engine is warm, and tolerances are what they will be on a high load on the engine, that whan you want to set the CCT's... As a result, if you get them dead on here, they will be just tight enough... Not loose meaning risk, and not tight meaning wear... The downside is that they will most likely rattle or make noise just a little at warmup, since the tolernace in the engine isn't the same until warm, again this is harmless as long as you get the warm setting in spec...
Basically what you want the CCT's to do is keep the chain in check... You don't want it too tight, putting a load on the engine, and you don't want it too loose, being able to skip... Since no manual or instruction in the world can tell you exactly how tigth "fingertight" is, the final adjustment have nothing with this to do, really...
The initial adjustment is to make the engine safe to start, and if it's a bit off, it doesn't matter much really... However, rather a bit on the tight side than on the loose...
Once you have done the initial setup, start the engine and let it warm up... Since you aren't 100% on the tension, LEAVE THE THROTTLE THE EFFIN ALONE! Or you might need a new engine... Clear enough?! If your bike is prone to stalling on idle, adjust the **** by the throttle cables to raise the idle a bit to say 1300-1400 RPM for the setup... Doing this or carb sync or whatever to make sure the bike isn't finicky BEFORE messing with CCT's is a smart move...
When the engine is warm, adjust the CCT's until there is no rattle or noise... With the engine idling, it's completely safe to adjust the CCT's making them tighter or looser, nothing can skip as long as you keep your hands off you know what... The chain only skips when the engine speed increases or decreases rapidly, making the chain move... With a constant engine speed, the chain is keeping it self in tension and on the sprockets without any additional help, by movement alone...
The reason for adjusting like this is simple... When the engine is warm, and tolerances are what they will be on a high load on the engine, that whan you want to set the CCT's... As a result, if you get them dead on here, they will be just tight enough... Not loose meaning risk, and not tight meaning wear... The downside is that they will most likely rattle or make noise just a little at warmup, since the tolernace in the engine isn't the same until warm, again this is harmless as long as you get the warm setting in spec...
03-29-2012, 08:20 AM
#9
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I tried doing it according to your instructions and i backed the bolt off like 1 1/2 turns and still heard no rattle, i got paranoid and tightened them back to 1/2 turn off finger tight, and havnt ridden it (also its cold as crap out).
I have 2 quick questions:
Normally how far does one have to back them off before they start to rattle?
and also how far is it safe to back them off?
and before anyone asks im pretty good at picking up on sounds,
I run a machine that I have to do that with for 8 hours every day
I have 2 quick questions:
Normally how far does one have to back them off before they start to rattle?
and also how far is it safe to back them off?
and before anyone asks im pretty good at picking up on sounds,
I run a machine that I have to do that with for 8 hours every day
Last edited by masterhacker1989; 03-29-2012 at 08:28 AM.
03-29-2012, 08:49 AM
#10
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Basically I just tighten until it squeels like a pig, you'll hear the engine labouring, and then back off until it stops... That's about right...
Backing of to much is easy, and it doesn't take much before the chain can jump... So don't try it that way...
Backing of to much is easy, and it doesn't take much before the chain can jump... So don't try it that way...
03-29-2012, 10:02 AM
#11
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Squid
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
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You can do the intial adjustment in any manner you choose... But the final adjustment should always be done with a running and warmed up engine...
Basically what you want the CCT's to do is keep the chain in check... You don't want it too tight, putting a load on the engine, and you don't want it too loose, being able to skip... Since no manual or instruction in the world can tell you exactly how tigth "fingertight" is, the final adjustment have nothing with this to do, really...
The initial adjustment is to make the engine safe to start, and if it's a bit off, it doesn't matter much really... However, rather a bit on the tight side than on the loose...
Once you have done the initial setup, start the engine and let it warm up... Since you aren't 100% on the tension, LEAVE THE THROTTLE THE EFFIN ALONE! Or you might need a new engine... Clear enough?! If your bike is prone to stalling on idle, adjust the **** by the throttle cables to raise the idle a bit to say 1300-1400 RPM for the setup... Doing this or carb sync or whatever to make sure the bike isn't finicky BEFORE messing with CCT's is a smart move...
When the engine is warm, adjust the CCT's until there is no rattle or noise... With the engine idling, it's completely safe to adjust the CCT's making them tighter or looser, nothing can skip as long as you keep your hands off you know what... The chain only skips when the engine speed increases or decreases rapidly, making the chain move... With a constant engine speed, the chain is keeping it self in tension and on the sprockets without any additional help, by movement alone...
The reason for adjusting like this is simple... When the engine is warm, and tolerances are what they will be on a high load on the engine, that whan you want to set the CCT's... As a result, if you get them dead on here, they will be just tight enough... Not loose meaning risk, and not tight meaning wear... The downside is that they will most likely rattle or make noise just a little at warmup, since the tolernace in the engine isn't the same until warm, again this is harmless as long as you get the warm setting in spec...
Basically what you want the CCT's to do is keep the chain in check... You don't want it too tight, putting a load on the engine, and you don't want it too loose, being able to skip... Since no manual or instruction in the world can tell you exactly how tigth "fingertight" is, the final adjustment have nothing with this to do, really...
The initial adjustment is to make the engine safe to start, and if it's a bit off, it doesn't matter much really... However, rather a bit on the tight side than on the loose...
Once you have done the initial setup, start the engine and let it warm up... Since you aren't 100% on the tension, LEAVE THE THROTTLE THE EFFIN ALONE! Or you might need a new engine... Clear enough?! If your bike is prone to stalling on idle, adjust the **** by the throttle cables to raise the idle a bit to say 1300-1400 RPM for the setup... Doing this or carb sync or whatever to make sure the bike isn't finicky BEFORE messing with CCT's is a smart move...
When the engine is warm, adjust the CCT's until there is no rattle or noise... With the engine idling, it's completely safe to adjust the CCT's making them tighter or looser, nothing can skip as long as you keep your hands off you know what... The chain only skips when the engine speed increases or decreases rapidly, making the chain move... With a constant engine speed, the chain is keeping it self in tension and on the sprockets without any additional help, by movement alone...
The reason for adjusting like this is simple... When the engine is warm, and tolerances are what they will be on a high load on the engine, that whan you want to set the CCT's... As a result, if you get them dead on here, they will be just tight enough... Not loose meaning risk, and not tight meaning wear... The downside is that they will most likely rattle or make noise just a little at warmup, since the tolernace in the engine isn't the same until warm, again this is harmless as long as you get the warm setting in spec...
03-30-2012, 11:51 PM
#12
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i really want to do the Manuel chain tensioners but im afraid i could mess something up,i kinda feel like this is the kinda situation were.... i leave well enough alone for now haha i do want to do them tho to prevent any future issues
03-31-2012, 12:13 AM
#13
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When i do them i always take the valve covers off to make sure the timing is right before i remove them. It's also a good thing to visually see how much the chain is curved in from the tensioners. I also measure how far the oem cct's go into the engine, and subtract that measurement from the overall length of the manual cct's. That way i know they are adjusted the same as the oem ones were. I still do the finger tight thing and adjust them with the bike idling, but at least by taking that measurement i can be double sure i am in the ballpark.
03-31-2012, 10:18 AM
#15
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If you are afraid to do it, don't do it. I have no internal engine experience but some wrenching time and I was able to do mine and figure out how to fix the timing with the help of a few members guiding me. It's a relatively simple job, you just need to be careful, take your time and follow instructions.
04-14-2012, 07:57 PM
#16
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front vs rear
SO, I ordered the Krieger CCTs.
I got them installed...and read a ton of the "feel/finger tight" posts....
I think I'm past that now.
Getting everything back together, and I look at my work.
Are the krieger ccts different when you buy a set?
Is there a front vs rear?
The front has about 4 threads showing between the locknut and the upper/top nut.
The rear has 22-23mm of exposed threads?
The OEM ccts look like the same distance from the mount to the top of the adjuster.
Is that right/normal?
I got them installed...and read a ton of the "feel/finger tight" posts....
I think I'm past that now.
Getting everything back together, and I look at my work.
Are the krieger ccts different when you buy a set?
Is there a front vs rear?
The front has about 4 threads showing between the locknut and the upper/top nut.
The rear has 22-23mm of exposed threads?
The OEM ccts look like the same distance from the mount to the top of the adjuster.
Is that right/normal?
Last edited by Spoot; 04-14-2012 at 08:04 PM.
04-14-2012, 08:44 PM
#17
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oops. found another thread....krieger ccts have one short and one longer.
AND....looking at the directions from KRIEGER...it mentions one longer and where to put them. (I was following the directions form the famous PDF)
short one should go in the rear.
longer in the front.
SO.
Since I believe that I still got the "feel" right...and I had just enough thread for the locktight before screwing it in....I'd guess I should be OK?
AND....looking at the directions from KRIEGER...it mentions one longer and where to put them. (I was following the directions form the famous PDF)
short one should go in the rear.
longer in the front.
SO.
Since I believe that I still got the "feel" right...and I had just enough thread for the locktight before screwing it in....I'd guess I should be OK?
04-15-2012, 12:41 AM
#18
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Squid
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Mine havnt given me any issues, I went finger tight then 1/4 turn out they clank a little when they are cold then it goes away (like it should). I did a bunch of research and basically found that a little loose is better than too tight, so I would go 1/4 turn out after finger tight if I was you
04-15-2012, 08:28 AM
#19
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Sounds like a bunch of black magic and voodoo theory going on with chain tension around here.
+1 aja
This is correct according to the instructions given by APE. It is simple and exact. No guesswork or concern that you may have done it wrong. No noise or engine damage!
Just be sure that all valves in the current head are closed when you measure chain slack (TDC compression stroke).
This is correct according to the instructions given by APE. It is simple and exact. No guesswork or concern that you may have done it wrong. No noise or engine damage!
Just be sure that all valves in the current head are closed when you measure chain slack (TDC compression stroke).
04-15-2012, 06:26 PM
#20
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yup. I did finger tight, then backed out 1/4.
fired it up tonight...seems good.
although, I'm not sure I can say that I hear any rattle when cold...maybe a little tight? maybe I'm not used to listening for that particular sound?
I can adjust later.
fired it up tonight...seems good.
although, I'm not sure I can say that I hear any rattle when cold...maybe a little tight? maybe I'm not used to listening for that particular sound?
I can adjust later.
04-20-2012, 06:54 PM
#22
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Something else had to be going on here. The M8-1.25 bolt thread pitch will only allow .050" movement in one FULL turn of the bolt, far less than the amount needed to have the chain jump the teeth. That 1/4-1/2 turn should not be enough to allow a cam drive to jump.
I always recommend you either turn the engine over by hand or put pressure rotating the rear tire while in gear, to pull the cam drive tight on the lead side to get all the slack to the back slider side while turning the adjuster bolt by hand. That is what is needed to make sure ALL the play is adjusted out of the cam drive when cold. I even recommend turning the engine over a full turn or more by hand to make sure the chain hasn't moved. I'd rather touch off a valve by hand than cranking the engine over.
I hope the problems are out of the way next time around.
04-20-2012, 06:57 PM
#23
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Use a mechanic's stethoscope (like $3 at Harbor Freight) or a long handle screwdriver. Put the tip against the tensioner area of the cylinder and listen (put your ear against the handle of the screwdriver). You should be albe to hear any ticking or the like. It won't be like really loud like some serious loose valves, it will just be a low ticking.
06-03-2012, 12:50 PM
#24
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Thanks masterhacker1989 for the Post, it was just what I was looking for.
As posted on other threads I just did my Kreiger MCCT's. I too was concerned about my tension set. Looking at Spoot's photos(Thanks Spoot for including them
) I am just about the same amount of threads showing on the shorter bolt tensioner. I also am doing the finger tight less 1/8 turn. I will do the warm reset also just because the chain
seemed very tight in the head after adjustment. Haven't started her up yet( still apart) but by turning the crank counter clockwise about 10 times it feels very smooth with no feel of interference( just the additional pressure coming to TDC exhaust).
I did eyeball the length of the O.E.M. tensioner in the head before removing but was unable to retract and lock it before removal. I just went really slow and even upon removal. I tried to have tension on it as it came out. I had ziptied the chain and sprockets before hand so I felt I had some additonal insurance. I was really concerned when the amount of threadshowing on the bolt was getting less than 1 inch. It stopped just to where Spoot's photo shows. What a relief, although I did install it a little differently. I used the shorter bolt on the rear.
Would appreciate any additional experiences from you folks about the after install. Thanks Tweety and Krieger also for your inputs(along with the other posters).
As posted on other threads I just did my Kreiger MCCT's. I too was concerned about my tension set. Looking at Spoot's photos(Thanks Spoot for including them
) I am just about the same amount of threads showing on the shorter bolt tensioner. I also am doing the finger tight less 1/8 turn. I will do the warm reset also just because the chainseemed very tight in the head after adjustment. Haven't started her up yet( still apart) but by turning the crank counter clockwise about 10 times it feels very smooth with no feel of interference( just the additional pressure coming to TDC exhaust).
I did eyeball the length of the O.E.M. tensioner in the head before removing but was unable to retract and lock it before removal. I just went really slow and even upon removal. I tried to have tension on it as it came out. I had ziptied the chain and sprockets before hand so I felt I had some additonal insurance. I was really concerned when the amount of threadshowing on the bolt was getting less than 1 inch. It stopped just to where Spoot's photo shows. What a relief, although I did install it a little differently. I used the shorter bolt on the rear
.Would appreciate any additional experiences from you folks about the after install. Thanks Tweety and Krieger also for your inputs(along with the other posters).
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