skokievtr

Do you have a rear hugger?

I finally broke down and bought a fiberglass hugger with a gloss black gel coat (that seems like a dust magnet) even though I have maintained (and improved the effectiveness of) the rear fender and shock mud flap because I ride in the rain seemingly way too much.

With my hugger at least I would be concerned about tire - hugger contact with a 190/50 or 190/55.

However, no one has mentioned actual the changes to the steering geometry (increasing the rake angle) other than the discussion about speeding up steering over the 190/50 (better bump absorption and damping was also not considered in the equation).

Do you have a shock with adjustable ride height, or considered different top mount shim thickness if you've gone that route?

NHSH

Not to discount the geometry, but rake angle would be almost insignificant in the 190/55, realistically I don't think average rider can feel the difference.
As for the shock, few millimeters at the shock will be very significant, which translate to much more at the wheel and rake angle.

smokinjoe73

Average rider? Geez, Christmas eve and I get downtalked like that? (hehe)

I have a hugger but its off a cbr so can keep an eye on clearance Clarence.

I have a Penske shock but would welcome the steeper rake since my old tire is squared and low so handles like a dog now.

I loved the diff from 180 to 190. Tire should come Tuesday so cant wait.

Average rider.........Pfffftt!

skokievtr

What did you luv so much Joe? Inquiring minds want to know?

And Happy Holidays to ALL!

skokievtr

Oh, and most every one now has the Dunlop RS2 on clearance for about $212 in OEM sizes for the pair with shipping because in Europe the RS3 has been out for a while (rated #4 see ) and presumably is being released in NA soon.

I've been trying to doing the comparative value considering feel, wet, dry, bump, up to temp and mileage to cost analysis, and may either go with the Metzeler Roadtec 01, Bridgestone T20 EVO or now the RS2 (only because they're about $40 less than the T30 EVO and the new RT01 are about $303. I've run both the Mich PR3 and PR4 but while they get the best mileage for my riding style they slide easily on tar snakes and are somewhat slow turning and responding if not also the best in the wet.

smokinjoe73

Oh, I loved (liked) the difference in handling from a 180 to a 190. Quicker steering.

Oh and great video. I haven't seen this stuff. Thanks.

I prefer dunlops for cost vs performance. Also don't usually wind up changing them in pairs.

Bad experience with bridgestones wearing into weird shapes due to bad transition of compound hardness.

NHSH

Joe, I did not demote you in anyway bro' LOL don't worry, you cannot be an average rider, riding all year round in NYC? I did that for couple years and gave up when I lived in NYC, thought I was tough, hahaha...
Anyway, Merry Christmas brother and keep riding safe!

smokinjoe73

Ok so just installed new tire. Never fun in winter but I put a space heater in my garage to keep it doable.

As soon as I finished it started snowing hard so decided to wait for a test ride.

Later it was 33* so not much leaning. Tire feels great, handling way better but old tire was really squared off. Always so much to do on these jobs. Clean & lube chain, clean brake caliper (need new pads).

skokievtr

Joe, your'e just nuts! I used to ride a Honda Sabre rat bike in the winter but I've invested too much time, blood, sweat and money into my VTR to risk it riding here in the winter between the road salt, ice, sand and snow, plus the wacky cagers.

BTW, I use doughnut and chain/sprocket changes as a free access time to also clean up the swing arm and clean out and install grease in the annular circumferential space behind the wheel bearing dust seals. Doing so very much aids in minimizing water and grime penetration into the bearing cavities. If you are careful, you can remove and the dust seals, and while they are out even more carefully use a sharp "Exacto" knife to pop off the bearing grease retention covers and clean and repack in sito the bearings, then reinstall the grease covers and dust seals. I finally replaced the original OEM wheel bearings along with a low-mileage used rear sprocket hub and bearings at about 104,000 miles but still have in the original rear wheel bearings! Knock on plastic! I attribute these bearing's longevity to packing grease behind the dust seals, as I've ridden in the rain a lot, and even had to ride through flooded roads and ford streams and creeks that over ran their banks.

smokinjoe73

Skokie I was not aware of the possibility of greasing the wheel bearings. I only cleaned and lubed the chain and cleaned/lubed the caliper.

I try to hose down the bike after mucky rides but it can still be messy.

Plus I got to install the right angle valve stem which makes tire pressure so much easier.

E.Marquez

It is very doable .,,,, though not really economical at a time vs cost deal..unless you consider your time free.. Or perhaps live in an area bearings are hard to come by, prohibitively expensive or some other reason to go though the hassle of removing the wheels, accessing the bearings, removing the seals without damaging them (not as easy as it sounds) removing the grease retention cover without damaging it, using a compatible grease (you do not the type and makeup of the grease the bearing manufacture used yes? Mixing grease types and compatibility issues

I think most folks would be better served by riding the bike 30, 40, 50,000 miles then replace the bearings as needed. If a rider is finding the bearings toast before 20k or so miles Id bet they do not clean the seal and spacer before reinstall, and or do not lube the seal lip before reinstall, and or pressure wash the bike spraying the seal area directly and or have wheel spacers that are grooved at the seal lip surface area.

My old SH had 58,000 miles on it, all but 6k of those mine.... Other then wiping off the dirt from the seal area after pulling the axle and spacers, and wiping in some grease to the seal area before putting the cleaned spacer back in..... i never touched the bearings... i did all three rear bearings and the fronts at 42k miles..only one needed it..the sprocket side outer.

My latest SH has 23k miles on it, and no bearings needed...no "services" other than cleaned and lubed as above.

1. I ride year round, rain or shine.... cleaning the spacer and seal of dirt and grime BEFORE you shove it back in the bearing seal.
2. Lightly greasing the seal lip before shoving the spacer back in.
3. Cleaning the excess grease from the outside of the seal after axle install, so the grease does not attract abrasive grime and grit.
4. And replacing wheel spacers that are grooved at the seal lip area are the keys to great general bearing life...with no maintenance needed.

NOTE... Im not saying you cant, or should not go thought the motions of repacking your installed wheel bearings...If its brings you peace of mind, pleasure in the off season, fuels the personal need to maintain something in perfect standards and see how far you can push the service life, or perhaps just as a cost saving measure,,,,, an hour of time and $.10 worth of grease you can do in your garage vice taking the bike to a shop and paying to have them replaced.... By all means, re grease the bearings...

VTR1000F

I rode a V65 Sabre (non-rat) in college year-round in Illinois, but there the streets would be clear and dry within a couple days after a snow due to the volume of traffic. You'd have the salt/grime film to decrease traction, but I wouldn't have even considered riding my bike on snow or ice. I'd ride Joe's bike on that **** all day long, but not mine.

skokievtr

Erik, I clean the swing arm, axle, wheel juncture before removing the wheels/tires too.

I also have special tools for removing the dust seals that 9 times out of 10 do not damage the dust seal if used carefully and properly but I don't do so EVERY tire and/or chain/sprocket swap. I do however always clean and grease behind the dust seal (and wipe of excess grease after re-installation as well as grease the axle and wheel and ends of the bearing spacer). This "well" of grease does minimize water penetration.

I'm also aware of not mixing grease types; I years ago researched and to my knowledge (with no guarantees) Honda and the manufacturers who supply Alls ***** Racing (and many others) typically use standard Lithium Complex which is compatible with the Aluminum Complex I typically use. Aluminum Complex is considered by most experts to be slightly better than Lithium Complex, and its comparably higher cost bears this out (pun). When I in sito "repack" a wheel bearing in addition to wiping and brushing it clean and injecting with a needle fitting the grease, if the bearing is still "good" but very dry, I flush it out by injecting Kerosene and then blow it dry with compressed air before repacking. I have this procedure down pat to 20 minutes and have extended bearing life by 50% doing so. If I was a cross country rider or the bearings had high mileage and/or felt dry, I'd replace them but even brand new bearings can fail either due to manufacturer's defects or improper removal and installation. I also have the special tools for removing and installing motorcycle wheel bearings and do not use the punch and hammer or socket & hammer techniques.

Joe, is that a RVT fuel tank I spied in the background and a Harbor Fright tire changer. A couple of years ago I sprang for a No Mar Classic tire changer set up (which I got pretty cheap from Greg Nemish's brother when they were phasing in the white hammered paint finish from the original silver and black (really a head scratcher that one considering tire changing is a dirty job but I guess it motivated one to wipe clean the equipment). Bought their wheel balancer too for pretty cheap.

smokinjoe73

That is actually a minimoto 18 volt RVT bike I got for my son. I can actually ride it. Pretty cool.

Yes a harbor freight tire changer with the motorcycle adapter. Drove to Conn to pick it up since the discontinued the moto adapter.

I made my own delrin wheel holders.

I use the no mar bar with it.

E.Marquez

skokievtr i never doubted you or your process.

I was just saying, for many, most? others, it's likely not needed, should they take even basic steps to keep contaminates from entering the system to begin with.
I've repacked installed wheel bearings more times than i can count over the years, pre race, pre ride, post underwater ride.
So again Im not saying its not a valid tech, or helpful to extend live if done well (like your doing it)

For you and Joe it may be a GREAT idea, for most its unneeded or at least not worth the time and effort.

skokievtr

University training was hands on Industrial Arts - Industrial Technology including material science including ferrous and non-ferrous metals, plastics including thermoset and thermoplastics plus the then early development of advance composites including carbon-carbon, graphite epoxy, boron aluminum, quartz poly-amides, polyesters, poly-amides and poly-sulfides, development and testing, power systems including RIC & Wankel, rocket, gas turbine, fluid power systems (hydraulic - pneumatic), machining, welding, metal forming, explosive hydro-forming, casting, forging, injection molding, pultrusion, extrusion, mechanical thermoforming, power systems including generation, control and distribution, material handling and distribution, mining technology, plant layout & design, transportation systems and more over a 5 year program. Besides the theory we learned the science and how-to specifically to be able to teach other engineers how to teach vocational education students.

I then went to work for 6 years with General Dynamics Convair Division (with interface with Ft. Worth Division, TX) in San Diego, CA where I was a development and process design manufacturing - industrial engineer embedded in the Production Plastics and then Experimental Dept 031. Projects included Space Shuttle Payload Bay and Manipulator Arm Boom (MAB), F-111HB, Tomahawk SLCM & GLCM and the ALCM fly-off with Boeing, Phalanx, MX, HEO-B, F-16, Atlas-Centaur, DC-10 mid fuselage, 757/767 Engine Struts, NASA Manufacturing In Space (MIS) Phase 1, and several presumably other USAF & USN projects when I asked what I was working on the response was "Do You Have A Need To Know" or "If You Already Do Not Know You Do Not Have A Need To Know".

Convair's company motto was "Only Right IS Right" followed by "We Only Have One Shot At Getting It Right Boys & Girls".

I'm not only naturally ADD and OCD but I also was formally and intensively trained to be this way; being dyslexic makes it all the more challenging!

skokievtr

For you DIY, I have the very reasonably priced Pit Posse set that has 5 different size split drivers and the drive tool. I can't remember whose bearing & dust seal install driver / press set I have but it includes about 10 bearing sizes. Then there are the 3 different dust seal removal tools, one of which can remove cam shaft and other similar dust seals.

$2 Motorcycle Wheel Bearing Puller

smokinjoe73

So back to the regular program, the new tire is noticeably taller. I can barely go in reverse due to feet reach issues. The bike leans a lot even though I have a sidestand extender plate.

Handling is great but I will lower the rear somehow. Probably some lowered preload and ride height.

Oh and it does hit the hugger, but I will remount that tomorrow.

Oh and is that diy bearing puller for real? Is it just cutting your own bolt?

skokievtr

I hate to say you were warned Joe...

Reducing preload and ride height is not the way to go, and it will grow at speed so static hugger clearance will not be enough.

Did you see tt the oem size tire was available for $112 too?

Bottom line, sell it and go back to a 18p/55 or at most a 19p/50.

Take your lumps and live and learn literally because compensating and compromising can kill you!

Happy new year my vtr will be 20 in 3 months!

xeris

Mine too. Has a build date of 3/97. Though I don't have any where near the miles yours has.

E.Marquez

It is just a bolt that was cut down the center and had the head ground down so it would fit though the bearing ID.

Its a wedge with a ledge to catch the shoulder of the bearing. the harder you smack the driver (screwdriver in the pic) the more the wedge presses on the bearing ID and at the same time pushing the bearing out.
NOTE. that bearing is JUNK after doing that... ball bearings are made primarily for loads 90 deg to the cross section... while handling moderate loads laterally. Banging on the cone with hammer and driver to drive the bearing race out of the hub is causing brinelling of one degree or another and any amount of brinelling means the highspeed wheel bearing is junk.

So yes, a great way to remove a bearing for replacement.. but not a great idea to remove "service" and reinstall the same bearing.

I use a blind bearing remover most times as its quick, easy and pulls the bearing straight out so less likely to damage the aluminum hub.
That home made tool would push the bearing out in a like wise straight manner and be a better idea then hammering the bearing out with a punch from one edge of the bearing.

smokinjoe73

Reading the responses I like the idea of the concrete anchor if that works. It would be less work.

I like the idea of the screw if someone was selling them but I don't see grinding my own right now.

E.Marquez

id bet the screw was done with a cut off wheel... for the slot and a grinder or file for the head...
3" in a air cut off tool, or 4, 4.5, 5" in a hand held angle grinder.

Dont forget to pick a screwdriver that has the shank all the way through the handle... or better, get a striking prybar with straight tip.

Or steel rod, ground to a chisel tip on one end...
or....

How are you driving bearings in and out now?

If your going to do that more then once every few years.. spend the money on a bearing and race driver set, and a bearing punch..

No you don't need those tools, but they sure make the job faster, and hassle free.
I have a pneumatic race driver set...another tool that nobody needs.. as it can be done with a hammer and driver set.

but it is so nice to bring out the air hammer, set the drive rod and correct sized puck on it, and with a single pull of the trigger the race is set, all the way to the shoulder. And you can literally hear and feel the second it bottoms out for peace of mind its seated completely.

smokinjoe73

So, spent the afternoon remounting my hugger to fit the new tire. Tomorrow will tackle the lean issue. Either put on the cbr1000 stand or lower the Penske shock height.

skokievtr

I have the cbr1000 side stand but ended up lowering my ride height on my penske, which I had set too tall to begin with. I first bought the wrong year cbr1000 stand but have the "right" one now if you can't find one for around $25 plus shipping.

smokinjoe73

So today I removed a shim from the shock mount. I had 2 so the one I removed should almost exactly compensate for the tire.

Didn't need to do the CBR side stand but I do own one that uses the same hole pattern as stock. I do have an extension plate on now.

Also cranked off some preload from the shock. It was too high since I had it set up for 2 up riding. Don't do much of that since "The man" wont let me bring my son on the bike yet.

All is perfect now but of course today it poured rain so the ride was not very spirited.

fabiostar

your better of using a 180/55 rear. the storm rim size was designed for a 180. for a 190 to keep the shape it was intended to be needs a 6" rear rim. iv tried both and its a lot nicer with the 180 rear..imo.

CrankenFine

jerryh

Roads mart II 190/55 rubs pretty bad when pushed hard on turns. I can feel swingarm twist, feels like rear steer where the tire ***** towards outside of turn. Have pics, forgot how to post