Thumb Fuel Screw
12-18-2013, 07:21 AM
#64
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,201
Thank You All for the Kind Words
Ok, I'm glade to see they have begun to show up at your doorsteps. However, I do worry about everything by nature, so, untill you install them in the carbs, and test them, I will not be 100% satisfied. I would hate to sell something that is less then perfect.
So, if anyone has issues or concerns, please let me know, so I may try to correct it with my next run. Now I'm not speaking about little notches to help count turns or things like that. That's something I will work on in the new year. I'm speaking about fittment, or clearance issues you may run into. You shouldn't since mine fit perfectly....but, just want to be sure.
So, if anyone has issues or concerns, please let me know, so I may try to correct it with my next run. Now I'm not speaking about little notches to help count turns or things like that. That's something I will work on in the new year. I'm speaking about fittment, or clearance issues you may run into. You shouldn't since mine fit perfectly....but, just want to be sure.
12-21-2013, 06:59 PM
#66
Junior Member
Squid
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 18
Got them in today. Very nice work, very high quality. These little buggers will save me lots of hassle. Thank you very much for taking the initiative to do this. I recommend these screws to anybody who is still sitting on the fence about them.
12-23-2013, 01:23 PM
#67
Member
Squid
Squid
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 48
Received mine today, as is the case with the previous posters. I am very pleased, they are nicely done. My bike is not very accessible at the moment, once I get a few things done, I'll be on it.
Thanks for your effort
Thanks for your effort
12-23-2013, 05:45 PM
#68
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,869
Mine are installed and functioning exactly as advertised. Very good job. The short one in front makes perfect sense once you put it in. Me likes!
Managed to get it all in without taking the carbs off... although I think anyone with an overfill bottle in the frame might find otherwise. It's already paying rewards as I am able to do and idle drop test very quickly. Recent major airbox changes led me to believe that 48 pilots may be too rich now, and these reinforce that hypothesis.
Jack Flash- if you haven't re-programmed the tooling yet, I found it easier to read a mark on the shaft rather than the head of the screw when turning, so you may consider an indicator there instead. Mind you, once you start fine tuning it really doesn't matter, but just makes it easier to document for re-assembly and such.
Managed to get it all in without taking the carbs off... although I think anyone with an overfill bottle in the frame might find otherwise. It's already paying rewards as I am able to do and idle drop test very quickly. Recent major airbox changes led me to believe that 48 pilots may be too rich now, and these reinforce that hypothesis.
Jack Flash- if you haven't re-programmed the tooling yet, I found it easier to read a mark on the shaft rather than the head of the screw when turning, so you may consider an indicator there instead. Mind you, once you start fine tuning it really doesn't matter, but just makes it easier to document for re-assembly and such.
01-07-2014, 12:12 PM
#70
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,201
Heads up to anyone else interested. I should be able to get a run this week.....I hope.
I've already sent out PM's to everyone on the list waiting at this moment. Your the Lucky ones, I think I'll be able to add a marking to the screw to count turns.
I've already sent out PM's to everyone on the list waiting at this moment. Your the Lucky ones, I think I'll be able to add a marking to the screw to count turns.
01-07-2014, 02:28 PM
#72
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
I'm possibly up for a set even though I modified the inexpensive Motion Pro 90 degree tool to work well without even lifting the fuel tank...
However, one thing (as an aeronautical engineer) concerns me is the length and weight of the extended screws and what the "moment arm" effect will be on them and the carb under our big V-twin's induced vibration and shuddering; i.e., will the extended screw heads "wobble" and at their other end cause wear to the very carb delicate orifice and associated threads as well as the screw needles themselves? !!!
The only thing keeping the screw head from whipping about is the thread interface, which is a very small diameter fine pitch and short length.
Frothing may also be induced by screw vibration...
Do I need to clarify more my concerns?
As Humphrey said at the end of Casablanca, "If that Superhawk leaves the driveway with those extended screws in it, you may regret it. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. But soon and for the rest of your life."
My inquiring mind is open to input...
However, one thing (as an aeronautical engineer) concerns me is the length and weight of the extended screws and what the "moment arm" effect will be on them and the carb under our big V-twin's induced vibration and shuddering; i.e., will the extended screw heads "wobble" and at their other end cause wear to the very carb delicate orifice and associated threads as well as the screw needles themselves? !!!
The only thing keeping the screw head from whipping about is the thread interface, which is a very small diameter fine pitch and short length.
Frothing may also be induced by screw vibration...
Do I need to clarify more my concerns?
As Humphrey said at the end of Casablanca, "If that Superhawk leaves the driveway with those extended screws in it, you may regret it. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. But soon and for the rest of your life."
My inquiring mind is open to input...
01-07-2014, 02:53 PM
#73
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MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,869
I was looking at that partially too, although once you install them you can feel that they are pretty solid in there. If they do wobble, it is by a very small amount... and I would think at that level of sensitivity we are in the same territory as debating whether or not the needle profiles match exactly the same tolerances as the stock ones.
Mine seemed to perform in the same manner as the stock screws. I do not have a dyno or other means of testing the exact effect, and would definitely hesitate to say that this is any kind of definitive evidence that they function as stock screws.
A similar concern I had is whether or not the extended arm/mass would have a tendency to self adjust or back out from vibration. As they are a first run I didn't figure anyone would have much of an idea, but that's one that time will tell. Methinks the regret would be relatively harmless too. There's a possibility of the bike running worse and or stopping altogether, but it's not like we're testing some new version of brake lines and hoping for the best!
Currently I've got my motor under the knife so I can't test further, but I think this would be a good spot for feedback!
Mine seemed to perform in the same manner as the stock screws. I do not have a dyno or other means of testing the exact effect, and would definitely hesitate to say that this is any kind of definitive evidence that they function as stock screws.
A similar concern I had is whether or not the extended arm/mass would have a tendency to self adjust or back out from vibration. As they are a first run I didn't figure anyone would have much of an idea, but that's one that time will tell
. Methinks the regret would be relatively harmless too. There's a possibility of the bike running worse and or stopping altogether, but it's not like we're testing some new version of brake lines and hoping for the best!Currently I've got my motor under the knife so I can't test further, but I think this would be a good spot for feedback!
01-07-2014, 03:09 PM
#74
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
I've been eating lunch so I had time to post and respond...
Actually, the amount of movement needed to cause "off running" and/or damage the screw needles and much, much worse yet (read expensive) the carb threads/orifice, would be measured in thousands of an inch (micro-millimeters). Vibration induced wear is insidiously incremental and sometimes very difficult to measure but believe me, it will occur (IMO).
The O-ring, washer and spring will help dampen the vibration but the threads will (must) eventually bear the brunt of the effects.
Actually, the amount of movement needed to cause "off running" and/or damage the screw needles and much, much worse yet (read expensive) the carb threads/orifice, would be measured in thousands of an inch (micro-millimeters). Vibration induced wear is insidiously incremental and sometimes very difficult to measure but believe me, it will occur (IMO).
The O-ring, washer and spring will help dampen the vibration but the threads will (must) eventually bear the brunt of the effects.
I was looking at that partially too, although once you install them you can feel that they are pretty solid in there. If they do wobble, it is by a very small amount... and I would think at that level of sensitivity we are in the same territory as debating whether or not the needle profiles match exactly the same tolerances as the stock ones.
01-07-2014, 04:15 PM
#75
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,869
Haha, Skokie where were you a month ago when Jack Flash was posting these things?
Now I am more interested than ever in the long term effectiveness of the screws, as what you brought up may play a big part in this.
As I stated before: Why would these not come standard on our bikes (and why had someone not thought to use them before)? I could think of several reasons off bat that could be considered when I saw the initial post. For instance:
a) Honda didn't want unknowing people messing with the tuning of their bikes too easily. Sort of a user-damage prevention thing
b) Emissions regulations required that the bikes come within a certain standard and be tamper resistant (similar to the pseudo-locked TPS setting)
c) Cost and complexity of the parts versus the need to adjust won out.
d) They wouldn't work and engineering a solution to work wasn't worth the effort.
e) Bike would catch fire, v-twin would collapse in on itself, black hole would formulate and the universe would drift into the next age with dragons and stars and all that.
If any of a,b or c reasons were the main reasons for Honda, then there should be no reason not to try making a custom one. Which then made me wonder why this is the first iteration of these that I've seen? Again, there could be several reasons:
a) Mimicking the needle profile would be nearly impossible with the small tolerances of these parts without drawings from Honda/Keihin. (My set seems to confirm this not the case; I'm sure we'll know more as more people get to test them)
b) Not enough people found adjusting the needles a problem for someone to seek a solution. As you mentioned, many experienced tuners already have the tools to adjust and other people don't need to adjust to make it. (Now we have some!)
c) The mass of the head would lead to the needle to back out from vibration. (long term testing and observation should attend to this)
d) The weight and momentum arm of the needle would damage the threads to the point that they would need to be repaired or replaced. (I severely underweighted the impact of this relative to what you have)
Is there anything else to add? Considering the low cost of buy in and experimenting, I felt jumping on board without all the info a good bet. I mean, even if you end up being 100% right and you have to replace the carb bodies... those can be found for under $100... it's all part of the experimentation game. Definitely more expensive than none, but I wouldn't say expensive relative to tinkering on a sport bike.
So that moves onto the next question. Do you think there is any way to prevent/reduce vibration damage? How quickly would these effects start showing?
Now I am more interested than ever in the long term effectiveness of the screws, as what you brought up may play a big part in this.
As I stated before: Why would these not come standard on our bikes (and why had someone not thought to use them before)? I could think of several reasons off bat that could be considered when I saw the initial post. For instance:
a) Honda didn't want unknowing people messing with the tuning of their bikes too easily. Sort of a user-damage prevention thing
b) Emissions regulations required that the bikes come within a certain standard and be tamper resistant (similar to the pseudo-locked TPS setting)
c) Cost and complexity of the parts versus the need to adjust won out.
d) They wouldn't work and engineering a solution to work wasn't worth the effort.
e) Bike would catch fire, v-twin would collapse in on itself, black hole would formulate and the universe would drift into the next age with dragons and stars and all that.
If any of a,b or c reasons were the main reasons for Honda, then there should be no reason not to try making a custom one. Which then made me wonder why this is the first iteration of these that I've seen? Again, there could be several reasons:
a) Mimicking the needle profile would be nearly impossible with the small tolerances of these parts without drawings from Honda/Keihin. (My set seems to confirm this not the case; I'm sure we'll know more as more people get to test them)
b) Not enough people found adjusting the needles a problem for someone to seek a solution. As you mentioned, many experienced tuners already have the tools to adjust and other people don't need to adjust to make it. (Now we have some!)
c) The mass of the head would lead to the needle to back out from vibration. (long term testing and observation should attend to this)
d) The weight and momentum arm of the needle would damage the threads to the point that they would need to be repaired or replaced. (I severely underweighted the impact of this relative to what you have)
Is there anything else to add? Considering the low cost of buy in and experimenting, I felt jumping on board without all the info a good bet. I mean, even if you end up being 100% right and you have to replace the carb bodies... those can be found for under $100... it's all part of the experimentation game. Definitely more expensive than none, but I wouldn't say expensive relative to tinkering on a sport bike.
So that moves onto the next question. Do you think there is any way to prevent/reduce vibration damage? How quickly would these effects start showing?
01-07-2014, 04:51 PM
#76
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
I have to get back to finishing a couple of structural drawings but since I'm the boss (other than SWMBO, ref the British sitcom Keeping UP Appearances), I'll give you my input.
1 Your initial a, b and c are IMO correct
2 Your second b, c and d are also IMO correct
As to how to minimize the effect, it's simple, reduce both the length and weight of the moment arm; i.e., shorten the screw extension to the minimum and the diameter and height of the knurled thumb drive head, and make it out of Titanium as someone earlier in the thread asked (magnesium does not have the properties needed). Also, the screw extension could be hollow thus further reducing weight and moment mass.
I grafted on with epoxy and then "Superglue" a cut-down Factory Pro / DynoJet carb fuel screw D-Head "socket" bit (that comes with their VTR jet kits which I did not buy /use) to the end of the below MP tool, and it works like a charm. A small mirror on a telescoping extension enables viewing the relative position of the pilot screw which I marked with "White Out" and a red index center point that corresponds to a blue mark I made on the edge of pilot screw hole throat.
Motion Pro Pilot Screw Adjusting Tool *08-0119 - MP08-119
1 Your initial a, b and c are IMO correct
2 Your second b, c and d are also IMO correct
As to how to minimize the effect, it's simple, reduce both the length and weight of the moment arm; i.e., shorten the screw extension to the minimum and the diameter and height of the knurled thumb drive head, and make it out of Titanium as someone earlier in the thread asked (magnesium does not have the properties needed). Also, the screw extension could be hollow thus further reducing weight and moment mass.
I grafted on with epoxy and then "Superglue" a cut-down Factory Pro / DynoJet carb fuel screw D-Head "socket" bit (that comes with their VTR jet kits which I did not buy /use) to the end of the below MP tool, and it works like a charm. A small mirror on a telescoping extension enables viewing the relative position of the pilot screw which I marked with "White Out" and a red index center point that corresponds to a blue mark I made on the edge of pilot screw hole throat.
Motion Pro Pilot Screw Adjusting Tool *08-0119 - MP08-119
01-07-2014, 05:02 PM
#77
Junior Member
Squid
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 18
Great Idea by the way.
01-07-2014, 05:04 PM
#78
Thread Killer
SuperBike
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Geneseo, IL
Posts: 2,017
Well then, thank goodness these screws came with a 10-year warranty against any defects which also covers any damage that may be caused by their use in normal street riding or off-the-hook race track use, right?
01-07-2014, 06:00 PM
#79
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 458
This is the way Yamaha thinks. The holes to get to the A/F screws on the YZF600 are filled in and you have to drill them out to make adjustments
01-07-2014, 06:59 PM
#80
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,869
I'm sure we can armchair engineer the bejeebus out of this thing by tomorrow better than a team of pro Honda R&D folks could figure out.
All this forum does is tell me my wildly assumed notions of reality have at best random accuracy and have little correlation to how cool I think they are.
All this forum does is tell me my wildly assumed notions of reality have at best random accuracy and have little correlation to how cool I think they are.
01-07-2014, 07:31 PM
#81
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,631
I grafted on with epoxy and then "Superglue" a cut-down Factory Pro / DynoJet carb fuel screw D-Head "socket" bit (that comes with their VTR jet kits which I did not buy /use) to the end of the below MP tool, and it works like a charm. A small mirror on a telescoping extension enables viewing the relative position of the pilot screw which I marked with "White Out" and a red index center point that corresponds to a blue mark I made on the edge of pilot screw hole throat.
Motion Pro Pilot Screw Adjusting Tool *08-0119 - MP08-119
Motion Pro Pilot Screw Adjusting Tool *08-0119 - MP08-119
01-08-2014, 08:15 AM
#84
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,201
Well, since some of you have addressed a concern for screws vibrating, Skokie in particular, I believe I can set every ones concern at ease.
The carbs sit in the center of the two cylinders and inserted inside rubber boots. The screws then have a rubber washer and spring to keep presser on them. Well, first the carb boots do take much of the vibrations away, even if they are tightly clamped. Then, there is the rubber washer and spring that come into play to prevent vibrations to attack the screws. Finally, there is the fine thread that is there to finish the job.
To support my sayings, if there is that much vibration transferred to the carbs, then, the floats within the carbs would vibrate beyond function. Meaning the that the bike would run pretty poorly, or not at all. So, if the floats inside the carbs, which are feather weight, manage to supply fuel to the engine without issue, I have no worries for the screws.
Is there reason for concern ? Perhaps, in the very long run. I do assume you will have bigger issues to deal with then the fuel screws.
However, I am open minded to constructive criticism if the condescending attitude is left aside. This is a work
in progress and any positive input will be well received by me.
So, to cater to this concern, I will reduce the thickness of the head on my next batch. I have also looked into aluminium
if some of you prefer this option and into titanium. The problem with titanium is pricing since material is much more expensive, and, a different procedure is needed when working this material. If you’re willing to dish out the cash, I’ll look into it more seriously, but, you can figure at a minimum 4 times the price.
The carbs sit in the center of the two cylinders and inserted inside rubber boots. The screws then have a rubber washer and spring to keep presser on them. Well, first the carb boots do take much of the vibrations away, even if they are tightly clamped. Then, there is the rubber washer and spring that come into play to prevent vibrations to attack the screws. Finally, there is the fine thread that is there to finish the job.
To support my sayings, if there is that much vibration transferred to the carbs, then, the floats within the carbs would vibrate beyond function. Meaning the that the bike would run pretty poorly, or not at all. So, if the floats inside the carbs, which are feather weight, manage to supply fuel to the engine without issue, I have no worries for the screws.
Is there reason for concern ? Perhaps, in the very long run. I do assume you will have bigger issues to deal with then the fuel screws.
However, I am open minded to constructive criticism if the condescending attitude is left aside. This is a work
in progress and any positive input will be well received by me.
So, to cater to this concern, I will reduce the thickness of the head on my next batch. I have also looked into aluminium
if some of you prefer this option and into titanium. The problem with titanium is pricing since material is much more expensive, and, a different procedure is needed when working this material. If you’re willing to dish out the cash, I’ll look into it more seriously, but, you can figure at a minimum 4 times the price.
Last edited by Jack Flash; 01-08-2014 at 09:57 AM.
01-08-2014, 04:50 PM
#85
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
JF-
If you were referring to me, I did not intend to be "condescending"; although some may interpret expression of opinion supported by extensive higher education and experience (aeronautical and SE since 1976) expressed with confidence as such.
To the matter at hand, try running your warmed VTR (though if on its side stand or a rear work stand the effects may be lessened or increased) through the rev range and observe the extended fuel screws under good illumination or better yet, under a strobe light at 10–15 Hz (10-15 flashes per second). Now intermittently place your index or middle finger on the head of the screw and observe visually and by feel (tactile) the change in vibration / frequency / oscillations.
I think you will be very surprised at how much the screw head moves. Going over sharp-edged bumps at varying speeds will also induce significant screw head movement regardless of the damping effects of the carb mounting rubber (isolators, which are for reducing heat transfer as well as vibration). The air box also helps dampen movement. The fuel in the float bowl also acts as a tuned liquid damper (something we design into buildings in significant seismic zones and antenna towers which are subject to wind induced vortex shedding).
It is pure and basic physics, a mass on a moment arm will move geometrically in relation and proportion to induced forces. That is why very often fuel/air screw adjustment set-ups utilize a flex drive remotely mounted; i.e., to dampen movement. Drilling out the head of the thumb screw will help, as will going to a suitable type and condition of aluminum, along with shortening the screw extension AMAP.
If you were referring to me, I did not intend to be "condescending"; although some may interpret expression of opinion supported by extensive higher education and experience (aeronautical and SE since 1976) expressed with confidence as such.
To the matter at hand, try running your warmed VTR (though if on its side stand or a rear work stand the effects may be lessened or increased) through the rev range and observe the extended fuel screws under good illumination or better yet, under a strobe light at 10–15 Hz (10-15 flashes per second). Now intermittently place your index or middle finger on the head of the screw and observe visually and by feel (tactile) the change in vibration / frequency / oscillations.
I think you will be very surprised at how much the screw head moves. Going over sharp-edged bumps at varying speeds will also induce significant screw head movement regardless of the damping effects of the carb mounting rubber (isolators, which are for reducing heat transfer as well as vibration). The air box also helps dampen movement. The fuel in the float bowl also acts as a tuned liquid damper (something we design into buildings in significant seismic zones and antenna towers which are subject to wind induced vortex shedding).
It is pure and basic physics, a mass on a moment arm will move geometrically in relation and proportion to induced forces. That is why very often fuel/air screw adjustment set-ups utilize a flex drive remotely mounted; i.e., to dampen movement. Drilling out the head of the thumb screw will help, as will going to a suitable type and condition of aluminum, along with shortening the screw extension AMAP.
01-08-2014, 06:05 PM
#86
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,201
There is no doubt movement from vibration will occur, and there is no argument there, we can both agree. Where I differ is to the amount of detuning the screws will endure due to vibrations if you will.
My design is basically a copy more or less of what is already being done out in other markets (mostly MX an HD). Both offer after market extended thumb fuel screws, and remote adjusted fuel screws. Remote adjusted fuel screw have an arm more then heavy and very long. I have in the past seen and sold some of these to customers with much satisfaction on their part.
If you know anything about motorcycles
you very well know how badly a 'Hardley' shakes and vibrates. If their carbs support it, I'm sure ours will even better.
As I previously mentioned, improving the screws is part of the pleasure and challenge of this project. I've already begun looking into changing the design of the next screws, and, with your extra input, it's given me more ideas to make what I believe is already a good product even better.
Bottom line for me is to make the experience of playing around with our motorcycle easier and even more enjoyable . Isn't syncing and fine tuning our carbs part of this pleasure ? IMO, I believe so.
My design is basically a copy more or less of what is already being done out in other markets (mostly MX an HD). Both offer after market extended thumb fuel screws, and remote adjusted fuel screws. Remote adjusted fuel screw have an arm more then heavy and very long. I have in the past seen and sold some of these to customers with much satisfaction on their part.
If you know anything about motorcycles
you very well know how badly a 'Hardley' shakes and vibrates. If their carbs support it, I'm sure ours will even better. As I previously mentioned, improving the screws is part of the pleasure and challenge of this project. I've already begun looking into changing the design of the next screws, and, with your extra input, it's given me more ideas to make what I believe is already a good product even better.
Bottom line for me is to make the experience of playing around with our motorcycle easier and even more enjoyable . Isn't syncing and fine tuning our carbs part of this pleasure ? IMO, I believe so.
01-08-2014, 06:23 PM
#87
Deals Gap is a Hoot!
Back Marker
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Louis, Mizzery
Posts: 104
Been riding for a long time now and I can't remember ever having a air mixture screw back out of a carb from engine vibration.
I have heard horror stories of air screws and jets falling out on long trailer rides.
In the past I would put one drop of blue Loctite thread lock on the air mixture screw just to hold it in place and one less thing to worry about.
SIRR1
I have heard horror stories of air screws and jets falling out on long trailer rides.
In the past I would put one drop of blue Loctite thread lock on the air mixture screw just to hold it in place and one less thing to worry about.
SIRR1
Last edited by SIRR1; 01-08-2014 at 06:26 PM.
01-08-2014, 06:37 PM
#88
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,631
Here is an idea: when installing these, why not mount a spring under the head of the screw (between head and carb body). I would suspect that by applying pressure/tension, it would reduce the vibration (since the energy from the vibration would be largely absorbed by the spring, since it would have to overcome the spring tension before causing any to-and-from movement in the screw shaft).
Added bonus: the added weight, so close to the center of mass, would also help handling
a real win-win.... he he
Added bonus: the added weight, so close to the center of mass, would also help handling
a real win-win.... he he
02-02-2014, 12:34 PM
#90
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,201
New & Improved
With a product like this, there is always room for improvement. Well, I hope you will appreciate this new version of the screws.
Center shaft has been emptied out, including thumb held portion, making the new screws lighter. There is also a small notch that was added to help count number of turns in or out.
For those who already have the older style screws, and wish to have them modified, send me a PM, and, we can make arrangements.
Also, sorry for those of you who have not purchased any before, but, with new shipping costs as of January 1st, I've upped the price by 5$.
Yes, I'm an ungrateful bastard...
Center shaft has been emptied out, including thumb held portion, making the new screws lighter. There is also a small notch that was added to help count number of turns in or out.
For those who already have the older style screws, and wish to have them modified, send me a PM, and, we can make arrangements.
Also, sorry for those of you who have not purchased any before, but, with new shipping costs as of January 1st, I've upped the price by 5$.
Yes, I'm an ungrateful bastard...
