Michelin Power Pure
08-02-2010, 08:53 PM
#61
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some observations: power pures
These tires are so sweet they make me want to give the michelin man a great big hug. I really can't put into words very well how much I like, no, love these tires. These are without question the best tires I ever had on any motorcycle. I've never been this excited about tires, so this is a new experience for me. Sorry for all the accolades but that's the way I perceive these unbelievable tires.
When I look at the Q2s sitting in the garage, the front and rears don't display similar chicken strips. The front tire is nowhere near the edge whereas the rear is about 1/4". This front/rear sidewear disparity has been the norm to varying degrees with all my tires to this point. However, the Pures are displaying the much closer to the same amt of front and rear wear on the sides. Unbelievable! Maybe this why they feel so exceptional and add a whole new dimension to riding the hawk. These things are as smooth as butter from straight up to full lean with no dive in or drama. Suffice it to say that by comparison the previous Q2s felt like clod-hoppers while the pures feel like light comfortable running shoes. Amen.
These tires are so sweet they make me want to give the michelin man a great big hug. I really can't put into words very well how much I like, no, love these tires. These are without question the best tires I ever had on any motorcycle. I've never been this excited about tires, so this is a new experience for me. Sorry for all the accolades but that's the way I perceive these unbelievable tires.
When I look at the Q2s sitting in the garage, the front and rears don't display similar chicken strips. The front tire is nowhere near the edge whereas the rear is about 1/4". This front/rear sidewear disparity has been the norm to varying degrees with all my tires to this point. However, the Pures are displaying the much closer to the same amt of front and rear wear on the sides. Unbelievable! Maybe this why they feel so exceptional and add a whole new dimension to riding the hawk. These things are as smooth as butter from straight up to full lean with no dive in or drama. Suffice it to say that by comparison the previous Q2s felt like clod-hoppers while the pures feel like light comfortable running shoes. Amen.
Last edited by nath981; 08-07-2010 at 04:24 PM.
08-07-2010, 04:47 PM
#62
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Power Pures have chicken strip indicators. The pics below show how front and rear tires work more in unison than any tires i've had in the past. The Previous Q2s and others have never been with a couple mm difference between front and rear.
I can't say enough about how neutral, smooth, and fun to ride these tires are, so far!
I can't say enough about how neutral, smooth, and fun to ride these tires are, so far!
Last edited by nath981; 08-07-2010 at 09:20 PM.
09-10-2010, 10:01 AM
#63
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After about 1500 miles and experimenting with pressures a bit, I still believe that these tires rock. (Have been riding the xr more lately because they tar and chipped some of my favorite roads recently.
) For those who ride the street and stay primarily on curvy roads, these are the best tires I've ever ridden on. At 30-32psi rear and 28-30psi, dependent on ambient temps, for one up @175lb rider, I can't see that you could get better tires in terms of neutral feel and compliance that enhances suspension both front and rear and thereby inspires confidence in the tires.
By compliance i mean that tires are an important component of suspension and can effect it in many ways. Many riders probably don't realize this and i didn't either until I rode these tires and tried to understand why they felt so different. Now I'm starting to understand why lower than max recommended pressures are better for sticking. Tires are in direct contact with the road surface and transmit everything to the suspension, to the steering, and to the rider, and these tires handle that function extremely well in that they not only do not upset the suspension, but rather facilitate it in that they lessen harsh inputs, acting like shock absorbers that allow your suspension to operate more efficiently.
By neutral feel i mean that when you enter a corner, this tire does not require you to force it down nor does it resist changing lines mid-turn, but holds where you want it to without resistance of any kind. Pics I put up earlier show that front and rear work together in terms of lean angle and the relationship to the part of the tire you're riding on(a first for me). They are working in unison and that's probably why their so easy to ride fast.
I raised the pressures to as high as 36 rear and 33 front and didn't care for the additional harshness of the ride and the increased stressors it puts on the suspension.
I'm not a michelin sales rep, but if I were I would feel comfortable recommending this tire for at least the purposes I use them for.
When I get more miles I'll be posting here for those interested in longer term perceptions.
) For those who ride the street and stay primarily on curvy roads, these are the best tires I've ever ridden on. At 30-32psi rear and 28-30psi, dependent on ambient temps, for one up @175lb rider, I can't see that you could get better tires in terms of neutral feel and compliance that enhances suspension both front and rear and thereby inspires confidence in the tires. By compliance i mean that tires are an important component of suspension and can effect it in many ways. Many riders probably don't realize this and i didn't either until I rode these tires and tried to understand why they felt so different. Now I'm starting to understand why lower than max recommended pressures are better for sticking. Tires are in direct contact with the road surface and transmit everything to the suspension, to the steering, and to the rider, and these tires handle that function extremely well in that they not only do not upset the suspension, but rather facilitate it in that they lessen harsh inputs, acting like shock absorbers that allow your suspension to operate more efficiently.
By neutral feel i mean that when you enter a corner, this tire does not require you to force it down nor does it resist changing lines mid-turn, but holds where you want it to without resistance of any kind. Pics I put up earlier show that front and rear work together in terms of lean angle and the relationship to the part of the tire you're riding on(a first for me). They are working in unison and that's probably why their so easy to ride fast.
I raised the pressures to as high as 36 rear and 33 front and didn't care for the additional harshness of the ride and the increased stressors it puts on the suspension.
I'm not a michelin sales rep, but if I were I would feel comfortable recommending this tire for at least the purposes I use them for.
When I get more miles I'll be posting here for those interested in longer term perceptions.
10-25-2010, 09:54 AM
#64
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just a brief note on the Pures. Lines or irregularities on the road surface parallel to the direction of travel cause squirm or rather abrupt side-to-side movement, some more than others. Hasn't compromised stability yet.
Also, if you get a little too aggressive with the throttle at lean (and it's easy to do with my set up....15/44 sprocks), the rear will step out on ya. Nothing major to this point though.
I still love how great these tires feel for riding primarily curvy roads. They are silky smooth and enhance the ability of the suspension to deal with less than smooth roads. It's the cheapest suspension upgrade you can make if you are most frequently ride less than smooth curvy roads.
Been running 30 front 34 rear in these colder temps(50 degrees)
Also, if you get a little too aggressive with the throttle at lean (and it's easy to do with my set up....15/44 sprocks), the rear will step out on ya. Nothing major to this point though.
I still love how great these tires feel for riding primarily curvy roads. They are silky smooth and enhance the ability of the suspension to deal with less than smooth roads. It's the cheapest suspension upgrade you can make if you are most frequently ride less than smooth curvy roads.
Been running 30 front 34 rear in these colder temps(50 degrees)
11-13-2010, 07:51 PM
#65
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another note on the power pures. Like I noted above i've been running 34-36 psi cold at temps of 50 deg and less. I've noticed the rear is seems more prone to slide/slip/skip out at mid-turn lean.
Maybe my reasoning is flawed: I figured that when it's hot(80-90deg), you run cold pressures of 28-30psi because the hot roads will quickly have the pressures up 4-6psi, i.e., 32 to 36 psi hot; on the other hand, when it's cold, the tires will never go up more that a degree or two, so it seems that you need to pretty much have the target pressures in there. In terms of my experience so far, this approach doesn't seem to work, at least with the Power Pures.
Next ride, hopefully tomorrow, I'm starting with 30 cold rear, 28 front to see if I can find the traction I had this summer.
I know i'm the only one who's been posting on this thread, but I want to note my experiences with these tires so that others who have or are buying Power Pures might benefit from this info.
Maybe my reasoning is flawed: I figured that when it's hot(80-90deg), you run cold pressures of 28-30psi because the hot roads will quickly have the pressures up 4-6psi, i.e., 32 to 36 psi hot; on the other hand, when it's cold, the tires will never go up more that a degree or two, so it seems that you need to pretty much have the target pressures in there. In terms of my experience so far, this approach doesn't seem to work, at least with the Power Pures.
Next ride, hopefully tomorrow, I'm starting with 30 cold rear, 28 front to see if I can find the traction I had this summer.
I know i'm the only one who's been posting on this thread, but I want to note my experiences with these tires so that others who have or are buying Power Pures might benefit from this info.
11-14-2010, 04:48 PM
#66
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got a hundred and fifty mile ride in today> in 55 degrees and some spitting rain. No slipping or sliding today. Started with 30psi rear, 28psi frnt cold. 30 rear cold turned into 35 hot, and 28 frnt cold became 32 hot.
I guess michelin power pures just don't like high pressure for the the twisties because with lower cold pressures they stick well.
I guess michelin power pures just don't like high pressure for the the twisties because with lower cold pressures they stick well.
Last edited by nath981; 11-14-2010 at 04:51 PM.
11-14-2010, 05:47 PM
#67
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I like them!
Well, the thing is it's not entirely the tire, but it's a big part of it... I think I finally have dialed in my bike to where I want it chassie wise...
Case in point, a couple of days ago I was on my way home at around 10 in the evening, not much traffic... Winding but fairly sweeping single lane road with a mix of 40-60-80 speed limits (~25-37-50 Mhp) and I was moving a bit faster, doing around 100-120 (~60-75) on the bits between small villages and mostly the limit passing through the houses... And it starts raining... At first just a little... So I keep my pace... And then after a while I come up on a car going slow, pass it without slowing down... And then another... A short town section, I notice it's raining more now... And then I get the speed up out of that town again... And I find myself contemplating making a pass on a right turn, putting me outside in the turn at a 130 (~80) in pouring rain... I looked at the speedo and realized it might be a bad idea... So I dialed it down a notch and started thinking... And the thing is, with the bike setup the way it is, and with new (scrubbed in) tires and a nice HID to light my way, I felt perfectly fine doing that speed, in pouring rain, pitch dark... I wasn't even pushing it...
Now either I'm completely off my rocker, or (and?) I think I got my setup right, and good tires...
Well, the thing is it's not entirely the tire, but it's a big part of it... I think I finally have dialed in my bike to where I want it chassie wise...
Case in point, a couple of days ago I was on my way home at around 10 in the evening, not much traffic... Winding but fairly sweeping single lane road with a mix of 40-60-80 speed limits (~25-37-50 Mhp) and I was moving a bit faster, doing around 100-120 (~60-75) on the bits between small villages and mostly the limit passing through the houses... And it starts raining... At first just a little... So I keep my pace... And then after a while I come up on a car going slow, pass it without slowing down... And then another... A short town section, I notice it's raining more now... And then I get the speed up out of that town again... And I find myself contemplating making a pass on a right turn, putting me outside in the turn at a 130 (~80) in pouring rain... I looked at the speedo and realized it might be a bad idea... So I dialed it down a notch and started thinking... And the thing is, with the bike setup the way it is, and with new (scrubbed in) tires and a nice HID to light my way, I felt perfectly fine doing that speed, in pouring rain, pitch dark... I wasn't even pushing it...
Now either I'm completely off my rocker, or (and?) I think I got my setup right, and good tires...
11-14-2010, 07:35 PM
#68
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Power Pures vs Pilot Road 2's
I just replaced a set of new Power Pures with Pilot Road 2's. The Pures are certainly lighter, smoother, and the handling is faster, more flickable,and more nimble. However, whenever I road on a highway with even slight rain grooves in the direction of travel, the bike felt very unstable and squirrley. The first time it happened, I pulled over to see if I had a flat or loose axle. After hearing this happened to a couple other folks, after only 500 miles, my local Cycle Gear store exchanged the Pures for a set of Road 2's and I am so pleased. The handling is not quite as quick but much more stable regardless of the road surface and still handle great with confidence inspiring progressive turn in. The Road 2's seem to be a great match for the Superhawk.
The Pures make sense for the twisties, but, unfortunately, we have none here in flat south Florida but we do get to ride year round. Mort
The Pures make sense for the twisties, but, unfortunately, we have none here in flat south Florida but we do get to ride year round. Mort
11-14-2010, 08:43 PM
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But seriously, did Cycle Gear do the swap no charge? If so, that's a big thumbs up for them.
11-15-2010, 04:01 AM
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hey Mort, glad to hear you got the Pilot road 2s. While I like the Pures for the twisties, I think you got the best tire for wear/durability and stability for the types of roads you're riding. I have experienced the squirming and it is a weird sensation. Like I noted above, the Pures are great with lower pressure, but they seem to slide easily with even only 35psi cold.
Keep us updated on the Pilot Roads.
Keep us updated on the Pilot Roads.
11-15-2010, 04:42 AM
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Mort
01-28-2011, 02:13 PM
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2000 hard miles on mine 70-80 degree F with temps as spec'd 36psi front and 42 psi rear. sticks like glue.
Then, 50 degrees same temps, 2nd turn, rear broke lose under moderate throttle 2nd gear. Dumped it. SOB $1k damage. All cosmetic thankfully but expensive none the less. Only about 2 hours worth of repairs but I will surely drop the pressures when it is colder.
Then, 50 degrees same temps, 2nd turn, rear broke lose under moderate throttle 2nd gear. Dumped it. SOB $1k damage. All cosmetic thankfully but expensive none the less. Only about 2 hours worth of repairs but I will surely drop the pressures when it is colder.
01-28-2011, 02:24 PM
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2000 hard miles on mine 70-80 degree F with temps as spec'd 36psi front and 42 psi rear. sticks like glue.
Then, 50 degrees same temps, 2nd turn, rear broke lose under moderate throttle 2nd gear. Dumped it. SOB $1k damage. All cosmetic thankfully but expensive none the less. Only about 2 hours worth of repairs but I will surely drop the pressures when it is colder.
Then, 50 degrees same temps, 2nd turn, rear broke lose under moderate throttle 2nd gear. Dumped it. SOB $1k damage. All cosmetic thankfully but expensive none the less. Only about 2 hours worth of repairs but I will surely drop the pressures when it is colder.
Last edited by nath981; 01-28-2011 at 04:06 PM.
01-28-2011, 02:30 PM
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Have the forks/rear shock set-up properly sure makes a difference, as to the way the bike feels under you...
GMDcomputrack sure made the difference on my bikes...and tires -Pilots, M3s, 016, etc. I seem to get better milage out of the tires too....
01-28-2011, 03:37 PM
#75
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I would agree with you on, WELL probably all of this......
Have the forks/rear shock set-up properly sure makes a difference, as to the way the bike feels under you...
GMDcomputrack sure made the difference on my bikes...and tires -Pilots, M3s, 016, etc. I seem to get better milage out of the tires too....
Have the forks/rear shock set-up properly sure makes a difference, as to the way the bike feels under you...
GMDcomputrack sure made the difference on my bikes...and tires -Pilots, M3s, 016, etc. I seem to get better milage out of the tires too....
01-28-2011, 07:12 PM
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01-29-2011, 06:25 AM
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Maybe they can be retired to a life of grazing in greener pastures in lieu of the harsh conditions you have so mercilessly subjected them to. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, lower your head and repent you sinner you.haha
01-29-2011, 07:54 AM
#78
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Yea, I think that shot was after my second track day with these tires. They inspire a lot of confidence, but riding a Hawk with stock suspension all that confidence can cause problems...ask me how I know....
Now that I have a dedicated track bike (FZR600) I'm going to retire the Superhawk from track duty for a while...at least until my 1000rr front end gets on and I address the rear end. You can rest easy knowing this set of power pures have a long life of winding back roads ahead of them
...now if only this foot of snow would melt
Now that I have a dedicated track bike (FZR600) I'm going to retire the Superhawk from track duty for a while...at least until my 1000rr front end gets on and I address the rear end. You can rest easy knowing this set of power pures have a long life of winding back roads ahead of them
...now if only this foot of snow would melt
02-04-2011, 12:17 AM
#79
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2000 hard miles on mine 70-80 degree F with temps as spec'd 36psi front and 42 psi rear. sticks like glue.
Then, 50 degrees same temps, 2nd turn, rear broke lose under moderate throttle 2nd gear. Dumped it. SOB $1k damage. All cosmetic thankfully but expensive none the less. Only about 2 hours worth of repairs but I will surely drop the pressures when it is colder.
Then, 50 degrees same temps, 2nd turn, rear broke lose under moderate throttle 2nd gear. Dumped it. SOB $1k damage. All cosmetic thankfully but expensive none the less. Only about 2 hours worth of repairs but I will surely drop the pressures when it is colder.
"Hard miles" is relative.
In all fairness, its hard to take folks seriously who review tires using the suggested tire pressures printed on the tires or the manual.
Those tire pressures listed are MAX pressures when you are riding with excess loads.
Start with 30r and 32f as a base line. Ride a few miles and check the pressure. Your typical Pure and or SS tires, when inflated properly are far more capable than you think they are.
Last edited by Karbon; 02-04-2011 at 12:28 AM.
02-04-2011, 03:19 AM
#80
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You know Karbon, it's hard to take people serious who doesn't know what they are talking about... Or at least when they sound like they don't know... Yes, the printed pressure is MAX recommended (no your defenition isn't completely correct it's a bit more complex than that, but nevermind)...
But an arbitrary pressure that everybody and their aunt is quoting is 32/30... And usually without knowing why, other than that "racers use it on track"... Do you know or are you just quoting bullshit? And if so do you know why it's most defintly wrong for the Power Pure's?
But it seems as you know the procedure behind getting the right pressure, so I guess you are not just quoting... But do you have these tires yourself?
The thing you need to know is that they have less ply than the average tire, to reduce weight... And a low tire pressure will because of that build a lot of heat fast and make the tire greasy, especially on a warm day...
Tire pressure in the low thirties on the road is just stupid, as you will increase wear, reduce grip and end up swapping those tires out after a ridiculously short time... And yes, I said reduce grip...
Possibly if it's very cold out, you could get down there, on a 50F day possibly, but you certainly do not start there... On a normal day with 70F + you should definetly not be near the lower end of 30 to start with...
You ride a while, and then you check pressure... If you have built enough heat to increase the pressure a bit, then you are good, if the pressure is the same, lower it a little and try again... Then again, you would probably not so this every ride, and but you should defintely do it when you ride in the spring or fall on low temps vs how you had the pressure set in the summer...
It's danged hard to blow the tire up with your mouth if you are to low, so going the other way is a better option... But yeah, on principle I agree that lower temps equals lower pressure to build heat... And on some older tires like the 2CT's you could end up as low as 32/30 on the road... But not on these, then you are just wasting rubber...
But an arbitrary pressure that everybody and their aunt is quoting is 32/30... And usually without knowing why, other than that "racers use it on track"... Do you know or are you just quoting bullshit? And if so do you know why it's most defintly wrong for the Power Pure's?
But it seems as you know the procedure behind getting the right pressure, so I guess you are not just quoting... But do you have these tires yourself?
The thing you need to know is that they have less ply than the average tire, to reduce weight... And a low tire pressure will because of that build a lot of heat fast and make the tire greasy, especially on a warm day...
Tire pressure in the low thirties on the road is just stupid, as you will increase wear, reduce grip and end up swapping those tires out after a ridiculously short time... And yes, I said reduce grip...
Possibly if it's very cold out, you could get down there, on a 50F day possibly, but you certainly do not start there... On a normal day with 70F + you should definetly not be near the lower end of 30 to start with...
You ride a while, and then you check pressure... If you have built enough heat to increase the pressure a bit, then you are good, if the pressure is the same, lower it a little and try again... Then again, you would probably not so this every ride, and but you should defintely do it when you ride in the spring or fall on low temps vs how you had the pressure set in the summer...
It's danged hard to blow the tire up with your mouth if you are to low, so going the other way is a better option... But yeah, on principle I agree that lower temps equals lower pressure to build heat... And on some older tires like the 2CT's you could end up as low as 32/30 on the road... But not on these, then you are just wasting rubber...
02-04-2011, 04:26 AM
#81
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You know Karbon, it's hard to take people serious who doesn't know what they are talking about... Or at least when they sound like they don't know... Yes, the printed pressure is MAX recommended (no your defenition isn't completely correct it's a bit more complex than that, but nevermind)...
But an arbitrary pressure that everybody and their aunt is quoting is 32/30... And usually without knowing why, other than that "racers use it on track"... Do you know or are you just quoting bullshit? And if so do you know why it's most defintly wrong for the Power Pure's?
But it seems as you know the procedure behind getting the right pressure, so I guess you are not just quoting... But do you have these tires yourself?
The thing you need to know is that they have less ply than the average tire, to reduce weight... And a low tire pressure will because of that build a lot of heat fast and make the tire greasy, especially on a warm day...
Tire pressure in the low thirties on the road is just stupid, as you will increase wear, reduce grip and end up swapping those tires out after a ridiculously short time... And yes, I said reduce grip...
Possibly if it's very cold out, you could get down there, on a 50F day possibly, but you certainly do not start there... On a normal day with 70F + you should definetly not be near the lower end of 30 to start with...
You ride a while, and then you check pressure... If you have built enough heat to increase the pressure a bit, then you are good, if the pressure is the same, lower it a little and try again... Then again, you would probably not so this every ride, and but you should defintely do it when you ride in the spring or fall on low temps vs how you had the pressure set in the summer...
It's danged hard to blow the tire up with your mouth if you are to low, so going the other way is a better option... But yeah, on principle I agree that lower temps equals lower pressure to build heat... And on some older tires like the 2CT's you could end up as low as 32/30 on the road... But not on these, then you are just wasting rubber...
But an arbitrary pressure that everybody and their aunt is quoting is 32/30... And usually without knowing why, other than that "racers use it on track"... Do you know or are you just quoting bullshit? And if so do you know why it's most defintly wrong for the Power Pure's?
But it seems as you know the procedure behind getting the right pressure, so I guess you are not just quoting... But do you have these tires yourself?
The thing you need to know is that they have less ply than the average tire, to reduce weight... And a low tire pressure will because of that build a lot of heat fast and make the tire greasy, especially on a warm day...
Tire pressure in the low thirties on the road is just stupid, as you will increase wear, reduce grip and end up swapping those tires out after a ridiculously short time... And yes, I said reduce grip...
Possibly if it's very cold out, you could get down there, on a 50F day possibly, but you certainly do not start there... On a normal day with 70F + you should definetly not be near the lower end of 30 to start with...
You ride a while, and then you check pressure... If you have built enough heat to increase the pressure a bit, then you are good, if the pressure is the same, lower it a little and try again... Then again, you would probably not so this every ride, and but you should defintely do it when you ride in the spring or fall on low temps vs how you had the pressure set in the summer...
It's danged hard to blow the tire up with your mouth if you are to low, so going the other way is a better option... But yeah, on principle I agree that lower temps equals lower pressure to build heat... And on some older tires like the 2CT's you could end up as low as 32/30 on the road... But not on these, then you are just wasting rubber...
I have tried to ride these with higher pressures and don't like the harsher feel and the decreased grip at lean. Consequently, I like even lower front tire pressure(28f)than Karbon because I'm not decelerating for turns at track rates(albeit I do load the front tire) and have found that the front doesn't heat up as much as I like starting at 32, so i go with 28-30psi front and like the handling characteristics/grip thereof.
02-04-2011, 06:29 AM
#82
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I agree with karbon and nath981 about the pressures. I was running 36 front and rear for a few weeks while commuting, and I didn't like how harsh it felt, so dropped it to 32 front and rear, which was much better.
On the track I ran about 28 front and 28-30 rear and it was 107 degrees that day at the track. Ridiculously hot, but the tires never got greasy during 20-40 minute runs. I was very impressed with the power pures at the track. I can't tell you how they would have done at 50 degrees though.
On long trips, however, I HATE the tread pattern on the front. Any line in the road makes the front end wonder around much more than it should. Very annoying during long rides on the interstate. Why the hell would Michelin put circumferential tread on the front?
On the track I ran about 28 front and 28-30 rear and it was 107 degrees that day at the track. Ridiculously hot, but the tires never got greasy during 20-40 minute runs. I was very impressed with the power pures at the track. I can't tell you how they would have done at 50 degrees though.
On long trips, however, I HATE the tread pattern on the front. Any line in the road makes the front end wonder around much more than it should. Very annoying during long rides on the interstate. Why the hell would Michelin put circumferential tread on the front?
02-04-2011, 08:20 AM
#83
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check out this workshop video and see what your tire might indicate:
http://www.onthethrottle.com/howto/d...ung-tire-wear/
02-04-2011, 09:19 AM
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nath, evines... I didn't have an issue with Karbons pressure per see... Everybody can run what pressure they prefer... That's something you "feel"... So it can't be quantified... What I did have an issue with was him doing a blanket statement, "start with 32/30"... That's wrong on so many levels... Not two riders want the same feel, nor do two different tire types or more, "Pure and SS tires" as Karbon worded it, have the same pressure or fell at the same pressure...
You most defintely start at the high end of the scale, and then check "temp" (either measure temp or by measuring pressure increase) and lower the pressure until you find the feel you like... On the Pure's you run a bit higher pressure than most, so starting at the bottom is counterproductive...
To give my pressures, I think I ended up running 34/33 or around there on the road in summer, dropping 1-2 at the end of the season with cold roads... On track I have no idea, that changes with the ambient and track temperature, and there I set by measuring temps, not pressure...
You most defintely start at the high end of the scale, and then check "temp" (either measure temp or by measuring pressure increase) and lower the pressure until you find the feel you like... On the Pure's you run a bit higher pressure than most, so starting at the bottom is counterproductive...
To give my pressures, I think I ended up running 34/33 or around there on the road in summer, dropping 1-2 at the end of the season with cold roads... On track I have no idea, that changes with the ambient and track temperature, and there I set by measuring temps, not pressure...
Last edited by Tweety; 02-04-2011 at 09:21 AM.
02-04-2011, 10:43 AM
#85
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 117
nath, evines... I didn't have an issue with Karbons pressure per see... Everybody can run what pressure they prefer... That's something you "feel"... So it can't be quantified... What I did have an issue with was him doing a blanket statement, "start with 32/30"... That's wrong on so many levels... Not two riders want the same feel, nor do two different tire types or more, "Pure and SS tires" as Karbon worded it, have the same pressure or fell at the same pressure...
You most defintely start at the high end of the scale, and then check "temp" (either measure temp or by measuring pressure increase) and lower the pressure until you find the feel you like... On the Pure's you run a bit higher pressure than most, so starting at the bottom is counterproductive...
To give my pressures, I think I ended up running 34/33 or around there on the road in summer, dropping 1-2 at the end of the season with cold roads... On track I have no idea, that changes with the ambient and track temperature, and there I set by measuring temps, not pressure...
You most defintely start at the high end of the scale, and then check "temp" (either measure temp or by measuring pressure increase) and lower the pressure until you find the feel you like... On the Pure's you run a bit higher pressure than most, so starting at the bottom is counterproductive...
To give my pressures, I think I ended up running 34/33 or around there on the road in summer, dropping 1-2 at the end of the season with cold roads... On track I have no idea, that changes with the ambient and track temperature, and there I set by measuring temps, not pressure...
Good points. And you're right, a baseline of 32/30 is not right for everyone. I should have qualified that post with "what works and felt good for me when I had the Pures". Sometimes i forget to distinguish between street and track riding and all the ideas kind of get jumbled in there.
What i was addressing was the use of the max rate psi for the Pures coupled with the word "hard miles". I should have suggested using moderate pressures instead of my preferred "feel good" pressure.
Currently, I don't ride with the Pures. I'm runing pp2cts (mostly because i enjoy the turn-in feel) at 34/34. So far with my suspension settings They are showing good wear.
Last edited by Karbon; 02-04-2011 at 12:57 PM.
02-04-2011, 11:18 AM
#86
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Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
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I always go by pressure rise not any set pressure.
For street applications (There are a few other things to do on the track but I won't bother with those here) a 10% rise from cold to hot has always worked well for me.
If you have more than a 10% rise in pressure, then you are just overheating the tire. All that gets you is less traction and accelerated wear.
So Nath, to beat you to it...... As I know you will disagree with this......
I have seen your posts on tires being part of the suspension and the benefits you see from running lower pressures. I will say that IMHO, is because you have a suspension issue and you are masking it with low tire pressure.
Let me ask you this, when you installed the lighter rims (and the light tires) did you do anything to the valving in your suspension? If not I would bet you have too much damping (both compression & rebound). It is not uncommon to need revalve when you change to light wheels and, once again IMHO, really sounds like the root cause of why you like the really low pressures.
For street applications (There are a few other things to do on the track but I won't bother with those here) a 10% rise from cold to hot has always worked well for me.
If you have more than a 10% rise in pressure, then you are just overheating the tire. All that gets you is less traction and accelerated wear.
So Nath, to beat you to it...... As I know you will disagree with this......
I have seen your posts on tires being part of the suspension and the benefits you see from running lower pressures. I will say that IMHO, is because you have a suspension issue and you are masking it with low tire pressure.
Let me ask you this, when you installed the lighter rims (and the light tires) did you do anything to the valving in your suspension? If not I would bet you have too much damping (both compression & rebound). It is not uncommon to need revalve when you change to light wheels and, once again IMHO, really sounds like the root cause of why you like the really low pressures.
02-04-2011, 12:17 PM
#87
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Superstock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles & Winston Salem
Posts: 433
TIRE AIR PRESSURE!
Hi Gang.
Ok this is just my opinion, and like everyone else, may differ from yours.
All of the tires mentioned in this thread are street tires. Not race tires. lately it has become very fashionable to run street tires at very low track pressures. I have been guilty of this too. Ever wonder why so many people crashed at the track on Pilot Powers. Low tire pressure, tire gets over heated and all greasy, bang! next thing your on your butt sliding across the tarmac.
I run street tires at the track because I'm cheap, and have to use my bike for daily commuting and track days (about six to eight a year on average). Back in the day when I was racing. You would go to the Dunlop guy and pretty much everything was 30f/30r give or take a pound. Now we have race tires with very stiff sidewalls and carcasses. Which require very low tire pressures.
Street tires don't have the needed stiffness to allow running such low pressures. My last time running 2ct's at the track, at get this 37f 37r hot per the Michelin vendor. This was a petty hot day at Willow Springs. I must admit to being pretty concerned about running such high pressures. After one session I was running the best times I have ever done on 2ct's at that track. I would always run 2cts at around 30-33 f&r before. Thinking this was correct and any movement was just because its a street tire.
Like I said this is just my opinion. Tires I really like for track and street riding are Pliot powers/ pilot power 2cts/bridgestone BT-002rs/Bt-003rs and the BT-016 is a great tire also.
I've been riding bikes for over 30 years (yes I'm an old fart almost!) Owned pretty much every sportbike made. My buddies think I'm crazy that I like Superhawk's, and ever more crazy when I show up at the track with a Superhawk and run it in the fast group. Been helping out test sportbikes for Motorcycle.com for a few years now. Last time I did a full test with them where I reviewed the bikes was back in 09. All those liter bikes were on stock street tires for the track part of the test. http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs...out-88218.html
Running ultra low tire pressures on street tires in my opinion is not helping your tire in anyway.
Ok this is just my opinion, and like everyone else, may differ from yours.
All of the tires mentioned in this thread are street tires. Not race tires. lately it has become very fashionable to run street tires at very low track pressures. I have been guilty of this too. Ever wonder why so many people crashed at the track on Pilot Powers. Low tire pressure, tire gets over heated and all greasy, bang! next thing your on your butt sliding across the tarmac.
I run street tires at the track because I'm cheap, and have to use my bike for daily commuting and track days (about six to eight a year on average). Back in the day when I was racing. You would go to the Dunlop guy and pretty much everything was 30f/30r give or take a pound. Now we have race tires with very stiff sidewalls and carcasses. Which require very low tire pressures.
Street tires don't have the needed stiffness to allow running such low pressures. My last time running 2ct's at the track, at get this 37f 37r hot per the Michelin vendor. This was a petty hot day at Willow Springs. I must admit to being pretty concerned about running such high pressures. After one session I was running the best times I have ever done on 2ct's at that track. I would always run 2cts at around 30-33 f&r before. Thinking this was correct and any movement was just because its a street tire.
Like I said this is just my opinion. Tires I really like for track and street riding are Pliot powers/ pilot power 2cts/bridgestone BT-002rs/Bt-003rs and the BT-016 is a great tire also.
I've been riding bikes for over 30 years (yes I'm an old fart almost!) Owned pretty much every sportbike made. My buddies think I'm crazy that I like Superhawk's, and ever more crazy when I show up at the track with a Superhawk and run it in the fast group. Been helping out test sportbikes for Motorcycle.com for a few years now. Last time I did a full test with them where I reviewed the bikes was back in 09. All those liter bikes were on stock street tires for the track part of the test. http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs...out-88218.html
Running ultra low tire pressures on street tires in my opinion is not helping your tire in anyway.
Last edited by speedkelly@aol.com; 02-04-2011 at 01:11 PM.
02-04-2011, 01:05 PM
#88
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MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
I agree with karbon and nath981 about the pressures. I was running 36 front and rear for a few weeks while commuting, and I didn't like how harsh it felt, so dropped it to 32 front and rear, which was much better.
On the track I ran about 28 front and 28-30 rear and it was 107 degrees that day at the track. Ridiculously hot, but the tires never got greasy during 20-40 minute runs. I was very impressed with the power pures at the track. I can't tell you how they would have done at 50 degrees though.
On long trips, however, I HATE the tread pattern on the front. Any line in the road makes the front end wonder around much more than it should. Very annoying during long rides on the interstate. Why the hell would Michelin put circumferential tread on the front?
On the track I ran about 28 front and 28-30 rear and it was 107 degrees that day at the track. Ridiculously hot, but the tires never got greasy during 20-40 minute runs. I was very impressed with the power pures at the track. I can't tell you how they would have done at 50 degrees though.
On long trips, however, I HATE the tread pattern on the front. Any line in the road makes the front end wonder around much more than it should. Very annoying during long rides on the interstate. Why the hell would Michelin put circumferential tread on the front?
Other than that, I like these tires as long as i keep the pressure low(30f 32r usually). I'm always pushing on the tires when I stop and can tell by feel if they are right and check my gages often. The reason I like less in the front, opposite of race track(front higher), is because of the way I ride. Lots of trailbraking keeps the wheel/ tire heated up nice, and the narrower profile seems more rigid than the wider rear when pushed on firmly. It might be a different scenario on the track where you're breaking down from max speed to first or second gear and thus pushin the front pretty hard,
02-04-2011, 06:45 PM
#89
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
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It is kind of funny how you talk about trail braking like you are the only one that does it......
I do it all day long with 36psi cold in my tires with no issues.
Though you ignored my post I still believe you have suspension issues.
I do it all day long with 36psi cold in my tires with no issues.
Though you ignored my post I still believe you have suspension issues.
02-05-2011, 04:35 AM
#90
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Location: Sudbury ON
Posts: 155
I've been reading the thread ignoring the pressure issues but looking at the tire wear myself and have to agree with 8541Hawk that Nath 981 has serious suspension setting issues. The front tread has ridging on the leading edge and the rear tire has ridging on the trailing edge or vice versa (would have to look at the pics again). There could be many causes but I suspect it is rebound dampening. Yes on the throttle is a good place to get some ideas on sorting out the issue. I trashed a perfectly good rear tire at the track in 1.5 days (10 sessions) and the front was near perfect. I have an aftermarket rear and stock front (gold valves & springs), go figure. As many have commented, low tire pressure will wear tires out prematurely from overheating but the wear on these tires from suspension issues was done at road speeds, albeit perhaps at a spirited pace. This could be the start of a another thread.
