battery drain on a '98 Super Hawk
08-12-2004, 11:30 PM
#1
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battery drain on a '98 Super Hawk
Hello, I have a 1998 Super Hawk and really love it! I (several months ago) bought a new battery for it and lately, have had problems w/ weak start, no start w/ the battery very weak; so weak that I can not start the bike. Any idea from anyone if there is any known electrical problem w/ this bike? I have checked the obvious stuff and can not find anything. I now have to, about every 7 - 8 days leave the battery on a charger over night. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
08-13-2004, 01:27 PM
#2
Member
Squid
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: East TN
Posts: 30
Re: battery drain on a '98 Super Hawk
Regulator/rectifier problems are pretty common with the 'Hawk. There is tons of info available on that subject here and elsewhere on the net.
My battery ('98) did the same thing, and I thought something was pulling it down.... but it turned out to just be the battery. Eventually, if I turned it off and let it sit for more than a couple of hours, it would lose most of its charge. I think my new battery was $40 at Wal-mart. You can always take your battery to Pep Boys or AutoZone or somewhere like that and leave it with them so they can check it. Good luck.
My battery ('98) did the same thing, and I thought something was pulling it down.... but it turned out to just be the battery. Eventually, if I turned it off and let it sit for more than a couple of hours, it would lose most of its charge. I think my new battery was $40 at Wal-mart. You can always take your battery to Pep Boys or AutoZone or somewhere like that and leave it with them so they can check it. Good luck.
08-15-2004, 10:38 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: battery drain on a '98 Super Hawk
:P thanks!! I will look into the rectifier/regulator area. Any knowledge of a thing called a "stator" (or something like this)? I have been told that this may be the culprit. I did bring the battery into a shop (where I bought the thing about 8 months earlier); they told me that the battery was good and did (does) hold a charge. So, plan B. Thanks for your help and suggestion. muaddib
p.s. any idea where I would look to find out more (ie. on the internet, like you suggest)? danke.
p.s. any idea where I would look to find out more (ie. on the internet, like you suggest)? danke.
12-03-2004, 04:16 PM
#4
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Back Marker
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 150
Re: battery drain on a '98 Super Hawk
You need something to keep the battery charged or it will lose its charge and die. This is the job of the alternator. The alternator produces electricity and delivers this electricity to the battery and maintains a full charge at all times. If the voltage produced by the alternator goes above 13.5 - 14.5 volts, the battery will be ruined very quickly. It's the job of the voltage regulator to keep the output voltage between the 13.5 - 14.5 volt range.
An alternator is the device used to produce the electricity the car needs to run and to keep the battery charged. The alternator uses the principle of electromagnetic induction to produce voltage and current.
The four main parts of the alternator are the Rotor, Stator, Diode Pack, Voltage Regulator and an Ammeter or Indicator Light to inform the driver of any problems. All of these parts must be in good working order for the alternator to do its job. Let's take a look at each of these parts and what they do.
The rotor is basically a magnet that rotates inside thousands of loops of copper wire wound around a core of iron. This wire wrapped iron core is the stator. As the rotor spins inside the stator the magnetic lines of force cut through the copper wire inducing a voltage. This is the voltage that will go to the battery.
The only problem is this produces AC current and cars/motorcycles run on DC current. So we need something that will convert the AC current to DC current. This is the job of the diode pack. A diode is an electrical one-way check valve that will let current flow in only one direction. The typical diode pack uses four diodes to accomplish this. AC current is feed in on one side of the diode pack and DC current comes out the other side. The diode pack also works the dash ammeter or indicator light.
Now that we have a DC current that the motor/battery can use, we need a way to control that current. That is the job of the voltage regulator. As the name implies, it regulates the voltage going to the battery. It does this by turning current to the field (stator) terminal of the alternator on and off. If the battery voltage goes below 13.5 volts, the voltage regulator sends current to the field terminal and allows the alternator to start charging. Current will then flow into the battery and bring it up to full charge. If the voltage goes above 14.5 volts, the voltage regulator shuts off the current to the field terminal and keeps the battery from overcharging and cooking itself. This is how the voltage regulator controls the alternator output.
When you first start your car, the alternator needs some current to start working. The voltage regulator supplies this current to the field (stator) terminal of the alternator to get it started.
The state of charge of the battery controls the alternators amperage output. When the battery has a full charge, the electro-motive force of the voltage lowers the amperage to almost zero. As the battery charge wears down, the electro-motive force is not enough to stop the amperage, so it flows into the battery and charges it again.
As you use more electrical accessories, such as lights, heater etc., the electro-motive force decreases and more amperage flows into the battery to compensate for the added load. It is extremely important that when alternator efficiency is checked, both voltage and amperage outputs are checked. Each alternator has a rated amperage output depending on the electrical requirements of the vehicle.
In modern alternators, the voltage regulator and diode pack are inside the alternator and are not serviceable by most DIY's and mechanics.
If any one of these parts goes bad, the whole alternator assembly needs to be replaced.
Testing the alternator is simple and basic. You need to check the voltage and amperage output. The voltage is easy enough to check with a voltmeter. If the voltage is between 13.5 and 14.5, it's a good bet the alternator is good. To check the amperage output, you'll need some special equipment. You'll need an ammeter and a load tester to check the amperage.
When the alternator is load tested, a simulated load, usually ½ the Cold Cranking Amperage rating of the battery is applied to the charging system. Then the engine is run at 2200 to 2500 rpm and the amperage is read on the ammeter. The reading should be close to or at the rated amperage of the alternator. If it is, then it's good. If it's substantially lower, then it is weak and should be replaced.
There are some signs you can look for that will indicate a problem with the charging system. If the headlights brighten or the Radiator fan motor picks up speed when you rev the engine, you may have a weak battery. This indicates the battery may not be holding enough current to run the car and is working off the alternator. If the charge light is on dimly at idle, this could indicate a weak alternator. If all the warning lights come on while driving, this could indicate a bad diode pack in the alternator. It may or may not still be charging, but you don't know unless you have it checked. At any rate, it will need to be replaced.
If you notice a strong sulfur smell, it could indicate a bad voltage regulator. The battery acid boiling inside the battery is causing the smell. This could lead to a battery explosion so be very careful when checking it.
Today's charging systems have come a long way and are very reliable. A new alternator can last seven to ten years and a rebuilt alternator can last five or more years. It's a good idea to have the system checked when you have the vehicle serviced at every 30,000 miles to make sure it is in good shape and it will greatly reduce your chances of getting stuck with a dead battery.
An alternator is the device used to produce the electricity the car needs to run and to keep the battery charged. The alternator uses the principle of electromagnetic induction to produce voltage and current.
The four main parts of the alternator are the Rotor, Stator, Diode Pack, Voltage Regulator and an Ammeter or Indicator Light to inform the driver of any problems. All of these parts must be in good working order for the alternator to do its job. Let's take a look at each of these parts and what they do.
The rotor is basically a magnet that rotates inside thousands of loops of copper wire wound around a core of iron. This wire wrapped iron core is the stator. As the rotor spins inside the stator the magnetic lines of force cut through the copper wire inducing a voltage. This is the voltage that will go to the battery.
The only problem is this produces AC current and cars/motorcycles run on DC current. So we need something that will convert the AC current to DC current. This is the job of the diode pack. A diode is an electrical one-way check valve that will let current flow in only one direction. The typical diode pack uses four diodes to accomplish this. AC current is feed in on one side of the diode pack and DC current comes out the other side. The diode pack also works the dash ammeter or indicator light.
Now that we have a DC current that the motor/battery can use, we need a way to control that current. That is the job of the voltage regulator. As the name implies, it regulates the voltage going to the battery. It does this by turning current to the field (stator) terminal of the alternator on and off. If the battery voltage goes below 13.5 volts, the voltage regulator sends current to the field terminal and allows the alternator to start charging. Current will then flow into the battery and bring it up to full charge. If the voltage goes above 14.5 volts, the voltage regulator shuts off the current to the field terminal and keeps the battery from overcharging and cooking itself. This is how the voltage regulator controls the alternator output.
When you first start your car, the alternator needs some current to start working. The voltage regulator supplies this current to the field (stator) terminal of the alternator to get it started.
The state of charge of the battery controls the alternators amperage output. When the battery has a full charge, the electro-motive force of the voltage lowers the amperage to almost zero. As the battery charge wears down, the electro-motive force is not enough to stop the amperage, so it flows into the battery and charges it again.
As you use more electrical accessories, such as lights, heater etc., the electro-motive force decreases and more amperage flows into the battery to compensate for the added load. It is extremely important that when alternator efficiency is checked, both voltage and amperage outputs are checked. Each alternator has a rated amperage output depending on the electrical requirements of the vehicle.
In modern alternators, the voltage regulator and diode pack are inside the alternator and are not serviceable by most DIY's and mechanics.
If any one of these parts goes bad, the whole alternator assembly needs to be replaced.
Testing the alternator is simple and basic. You need to check the voltage and amperage output. The voltage is easy enough to check with a voltmeter. If the voltage is between 13.5 and 14.5, it's a good bet the alternator is good. To check the amperage output, you'll need some special equipment. You'll need an ammeter and a load tester to check the amperage.
When the alternator is load tested, a simulated load, usually ½ the Cold Cranking Amperage rating of the battery is applied to the charging system. Then the engine is run at 2200 to 2500 rpm and the amperage is read on the ammeter. The reading should be close to or at the rated amperage of the alternator. If it is, then it's good. If it's substantially lower, then it is weak and should be replaced.
There are some signs you can look for that will indicate a problem with the charging system. If the headlights brighten or the Radiator fan motor picks up speed when you rev the engine, you may have a weak battery. This indicates the battery may not be holding enough current to run the car and is working off the alternator. If the charge light is on dimly at idle, this could indicate a weak alternator. If all the warning lights come on while driving, this could indicate a bad diode pack in the alternator. It may or may not still be charging, but you don't know unless you have it checked. At any rate, it will need to be replaced.
If you notice a strong sulfur smell, it could indicate a bad voltage regulator. The battery acid boiling inside the battery is causing the smell. This could lead to a battery explosion so be very careful when checking it.
Today's charging systems have come a long way and are very reliable. A new alternator can last seven to ten years and a rebuilt alternator can last five or more years. It's a good idea to have the system checked when you have the vehicle serviced at every 30,000 miles to make sure it is in good shape and it will greatly reduce your chances of getting stuck with a dead battery.
12-03-2004, 06:30 PM
#5
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Thornwood, NY
Posts: 817
Re: battery drain on a '98 Super Hawk
muaddib,
I had my battery die (while riding) due to a bad R/R over this past summer. You should check out this site....
http://www.electrexusa.com/04_Technical_Start.html
They have some pretty good trouble shooting guides for you to follow regarding charging/electrical systems for motorcycles. Also, if you have the Honda service manual, that would be a good place to look as well.
I used both to figure out what was up with my hawk. The Electrex site info gives very good general info about the systems in general, while the Honda manual is a bit more abstract from what I remembered, but was good to find out "exact" specs about the electric system.
It sounds like your just not getting enough charge from the bike anymore, could be something as simple as a corroded/loose wire somewhere. I'd check the simple first.
J.
I had my battery die (while riding) due to a bad R/R over this past summer. You should check out this site....
http://www.electrexusa.com/04_Technical_Start.html
They have some pretty good trouble shooting guides for you to follow regarding charging/electrical systems for motorcycles. Also, if you have the Honda service manual, that would be a good place to look as well.
I used both to figure out what was up with my hawk. The Electrex site info gives very good general info about the systems in general, while the Honda manual is a bit more abstract from what I remembered, but was good to find out "exact" specs about the electric system.
It sounds like your just not getting enough charge from the bike anymore, could be something as simple as a corroded/loose wire somewhere. I'd check the simple first.
J.
12-06-2004, 03:39 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: battery drain on a '98 Super Hawk
hi there,
i bought a nicely discounted '04 SH last week, and the morning after i brought it home, it did not want to start - had weak charge, but engine would not turn over. went back to dealer and they ran a days worth of diagnostics on it and found that the instrument cluster was pulling 2 amps off the battery even after the bike was turned off. so they had to order me a new instrument cluster - am still waiting, so i'll be sure to post my findings on whether or not this was truly the culprit.
such a drag, i've only put on 33 miles on it! can't wait for it to warm up again!
good luck
i bought a nicely discounted '04 SH last week, and the morning after i brought it home, it did not want to start - had weak charge, but engine would not turn over. went back to dealer and they ran a days worth of diagnostics on it and found that the instrument cluster was pulling 2 amps off the battery even after the bike was turned off. so they had to order me a new instrument cluster - am still waiting, so i'll be sure to post my findings on whether or not this was truly the culprit.
such a drag, i've only put on 33 miles on it! can't wait for it to warm up again!
good luck
11-04-2005, 06:29 PM
#7
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 882
New link
http://www.electrosport.com/electros...t_finding.html
http://www.electrosport.com/electros...t_finding.html
................... You should check out this site....
http://www.electrexusa.com/04_Technical_Start.html
...................................
http://www.electrexusa.com/04_Technical_Start.html
...................................
11-06-2005, 12:47 PM
#8
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,011
Re: battery drain on a '98 Super Hawk
I have a question on those directions. I have the exact same problem. Went through, I have like 12.5 volts at 2500rpm. Which I already realized since it wasn't recharging... Then I don't know where to reach my stator at so I skipped to the regulator/rectifier. In the steps it says: "connect the RED multimeter lead to the red output wire of the RR, connect the BLACK multimeter to the yellow wire. " When doing this I get 3 readings of OL. Next I switch it and get three readings of around .5v... Next step is black on the negative output wire: GREEN and put red on the yellows. I get two OL's and the third I get a reading that goes up to 2.0V then back to OL... I'm assuming this means my r/r is bad... can anyone confirm this?
11-12-2005, 08:51 AM
#9
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Trussville, Alabama
Posts: 406
Re: battery drain on a '98 Super Hawk
I'm battling same/similar problem w/ my '98. I replaced the battery (it was several years old) and ithe new one still died within a few days. Well, it didn't actually die, the voltage just dropped low enough that it would not turn the engine over long enough for it to start.
Here's what I found (using voltmeter / ammeter)
My charging circuit is working fine.
With everything off, and ammeter in-line with the positive lead off the battery, something was drawing current. I started pulling fuses and found it was the odometer. I guess it was the maintenance voltage to keep the odometer memory intact. It was a SMALL amount of current, don't remember for sure but maybe 50 microamps?
I left the fuse out, charged the battery and waited a few days.
The battery no-load voltage dropped again.
This part -as far as I know - is foolproof, and what I did:
Charge the battery.
Install it with an ammeter in-line with the positive lead.
If there is curent being drawn - find the source of the drain.
(pull fuses, etc)
Mine was the odometer circuit.
With that fuse out, I had ZERO current draw.
But, my battery voltage still dropped to about 10.4 within a day or two. Now I think I just got a bad battery.
Key thing is find out if it is a charging problem or a current drain problem when key is off.
Here's what I found (using voltmeter / ammeter)
My charging circuit is working fine.
With everything off, and ammeter in-line with the positive lead off the battery, something was drawing current. I started pulling fuses and found it was the odometer. I guess it was the maintenance voltage to keep the odometer memory intact. It was a SMALL amount of current, don't remember for sure but maybe 50 microamps?
I left the fuse out, charged the battery and waited a few days.
The battery no-load voltage dropped again.
This part -as far as I know - is foolproof, and what I did:
Charge the battery.
Install it with an ammeter in-line with the positive lead.
If there is curent being drawn - find the source of the drain.
(pull fuses, etc)
Mine was the odometer circuit.
With that fuse out, I had ZERO current draw.
But, my battery voltage still dropped to about 10.4 within a day or two. Now I think I just got a bad battery.
Key thing is find out if it is a charging problem or a current drain problem when key is off.
06-26-2006, 08:35 AM
#10
Member
Squid
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 79
After dealing with an electrical issue with mine, i got some great tips about battery and alternator operations on the Superhawk. First off, in case you didnt know...the stock alternator will not operate at idle speed. This was a huge headache that can be fixed for about 40 bucks. Also, check for wear on you battery terminal...found that mine was shorting to the frame...also an easy fix.
06-26-2006, 09:07 AM
#11
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SuperBike
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,572
Just curious what the $40 fix for the alternator charging is???
Originally Posted by Erion_squid
After dealing with an electrical issue with mine, i got some great tips about battery and alternator operations on the Superhawk. First off, in case you didnt know...the stock alternator will not operate at idle speed. This was a huge headache that can be fixed for about 40 bucks. Also, check for wear on you battery terminal...found that mine was shorting to the frame...also an easy fix.
06-04-2007, 06:09 PM
#15
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Squid
Join Date: May 2007
Location: arkansas
Posts: 32
most of the tech guys and i would call this a parasitic draw on battery first check alt output with a DVOM should be 13.5 -13.8 off idle just hook up to the battery post positive and negative if reading is good then do this to check for a key off draw disconnect negative battery cable and hook a test light in between the negative post and the cable just disconnected if it lights then you have a parastic draw on the battery when the key is off to find what area it is in just find the fuse box and pull out one fuse at a time untill your test light goes out and it will point you in the right direction or circuit the prob is
02-21-2008, 10:49 AM
#16
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SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 562
I've got the charging problem too...
I started having charging problems last year. I replaced the battery and found out that wasn't the problem. After checking in here I discovered that the RR was a common culprit so I replaced that. This past weekend I went on an overnighter and the battery was nearly dead in the morning (bump starting was required until I had ridden for a solid hour).
So I'm wondering what the culprit is now. I have a hard time believing that the odometer draws enough power to drain the battery, though I'm not riding a whole lot right now, so maybe given enough time it will? The battery posts look clean. I'll get out there with a meter and pick up a test light to follow the above suggestions, but if anyone has more words of wisdom they would be appreciated.
04-19-2008, 06:20 PM
#17
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Squid
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 59
i also have the cluster pulling 1.9 amps with the key off, i just pulled the fuse for the odometer, the only down side is that when i shut the bike off... i lose the trip odometer, it restarts at 0. oh well, beats buying a $300 cluster. p.s. its nearly always a regulator....
04-20-2008, 06:22 AM
#18
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SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 562
It's a weird thing: When I turn my bike on, even if it's been sitting there for a week, the turn signals work well. But a delay develops and after about 20" of riding it can be about 8 seconds, making signalling almost useless. I have yet to check the alternator with a decent multi meter, I'm wondering if it's overcharging and screwing things up - when I checked it with my old, not-so-good meter it appeared to be high, like 15 to 16 volts.
04-21-2008, 08:13 AM
#20
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04-21-2008, 08:49 AM
#21
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Superstock
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brooklyn, CT
Posts: 287
I think I'm going to drop mine off at the shop. Don't have a test light or the time to play with it. I have an R-1 R/R on order, but why waste time and $$ replacing it when it could be so many other things. Bike runs great, but the battery goes dead overnight if not disconnected. Let them deal with it.
12-16-2008, 11:29 PM
#22
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SuperSport
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 507
I have a 98 with an after market RR. Went on a 200+ mile ride just fine but the next day the battery would just turn on the lights. Had the battery tested and found it was bad. When I was installing battery I decided to do the inline test just to see what the draw off the battery was with the key off. Th volt meter was registering about 10.5 volts! Once I pulled the odometer fuse the draw dropped to .07 which is in spec according to the manual. I guess I need to measure the amps so I will be doing that tomorrow. I was hoping someone else could do the same test and tell me what it measures in volts and amps on their SH that has no battery issues.
12-17-2008, 08:34 AM
#23
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MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
I have a 98 with an after market RR. Went on a 200+ mile ride just fine but the next day the battery would just turn on the lights. Had the battery tested and found it was bad. When I was installing battery I decided to do the inline test just to see what the draw off the battery was with the key off. Th volt meter was registering about 10.5 volts! Once I pulled the odometer fuse the draw dropped to .07 which is in spec according to the manual. I guess I need to measure the amps so I will be doing that tomorrow. I was hoping someone else could do the same test and tell me what it measures in volts and amps on their SH that has no battery issues.
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