No clutch. Won't start.
11-23-2016, 09:44 PM
#31
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Oh, yeah, even cheaper is the other fix I did.
You can run a dedicated ground wire to the starter solenoid on the low voltage side and install a secret push button under the tail that starts the bike. Maybe $5 of parts.
It would buy you time to find the real culprit.
You can run a dedicated ground wire to the starter solenoid on the low voltage side and install a secret push button under the tail that starts the bike. Maybe $5 of parts.
It would buy you time to find the real culprit.
11-24-2016, 02:04 PM
#32
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Continuity is one thing. Carrying enough current to energize the start relay is another. Many times I have been able to get a good continuity reading through a circuit but when you try to power something the bad connection will not allow enough current to flow. You need to measure voltage available to the start relay. Since the circuit is completed through the various switches on the ground side of the relay look for voltage there if voltage present then the path to ground is not complete.
11-24-2016, 02:10 PM
#33
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Oh, yeah, even cheaper is the other fix I did.
You can run a dedicated ground wire to the starter solenoid on the low voltage side and install a secret push button under the tail that starts the bike. Maybe $5 of parts.
It would buy you time to find the real culprit.
You can run a dedicated ground wire to the starter solenoid on the low voltage side and install a secret push button under the tail that starts the bike. Maybe $5 of parts.
It would buy you time to find the real culprit.
I'm still missing a full exhaust system and plastics that aren't broken.
11-24-2016, 03:32 PM
#34
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You might check the voltage drop from the positive terminal along the circuit.
Voltage Drop Testing
11-24-2016, 07:04 PM
#35
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Just for the hell of it, before I knew what I was being told to do, I checked my battery, and it was just under 12v. I left one prong on the ground terminal of my battery and pit the other on the lead coming from my starter relay going to the starter. With the ignition on and not pressing the button, it was just over 9v. When pressing the starter button, it read 1.4v coming out of the relay going to the starter.
11-24-2016, 07:32 PM
#37
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I respect ya, Joe. So what does the problem fall on? If I have a good charge on my battery. And it falls to 1v when the button is pressed, that would be a bad connection at the switch?
11-24-2016, 10:09 PM
#38
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Where are you testing this voltage? Across the terminals? You said you jumped across the solenoid highside and it spun the starter strongly?
Also did you try grounding the lowside (low voltage) on the solenoid? It sounds like the starter button may be shorting to ground and causing the volt drop but cant tell you how.
Until you answer these questions, you cant really know. Each one will get you closer to eliminating button, solenoid, starter or battery.
Also did you try grounding the lowside (low voltage) on the solenoid? It sounds like the starter button may be shorting to ground and causing the volt drop but cant tell you how.
Until you answer these questions, you cant really know. Each one will get you closer to eliminating button, solenoid, starter or battery.
11-24-2016, 10:28 PM
#39
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Where are you testing this voltage? Across the terminals? You said you jumped across the solenoid highside and it spun the starter strongly?
Also did you try grounding the lowside (low voltage) on the solenoid? It sounds like the starter button may be shorting to ground and causing the volt drop but cant tell you how.
Until you answer these questions, you cant really know. Each one will get you closer to eliminating button, solenoid, starter or battery.
Also did you try grounding the lowside (low voltage) on the solenoid? It sounds like the starter button may be shorting to ground and causing the volt drop but cant tell you how.
Until you answer these questions, you cant really know. Each one will get you closer to eliminating button, solenoid, starter or battery.
11-24-2016, 10:29 PM
#40
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Where are you testing this voltage? Across the terminals? You said you jumped across the solenoid highside and it spun the starter strongly?
Also did you try grounding the lowside (low voltage) on the solenoid? It sounds like the starter button may be shorting to ground and causing the volt drop but cant tell you how.
Until you answer these questions, you cant really know. Each one will get you closer to eliminating button, solenoid, starter or battery.
Also did you try grounding the lowside (low voltage) on the solenoid? It sounds like the starter button may be shorting to ground and causing the volt drop but cant tell you how.
Until you answer these questions, you cant really know. Each one will get you closer to eliminating button, solenoid, starter or battery.
11-25-2016, 09:38 PM
#41
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So on the solenoid, there are the big wires (highside) and small wires (lowside/low voltage).
I am trying to remember which one I bridged to ground with a button under my tail but I will look at my thread on here (or you could look) call no hot start issue and Erik (E Marquez) clued me in at the time so if he reads this he may just tell you.
I am trying to remember which one I bridged to ground with a button under my tail but I will look at my thread on here (or you could look) call no hot start issue and Erik (E Marquez) clued me in at the time so if he reads this he may just tell you.
11-25-2016, 09:45 PM
#42
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Oh ok here is Eriks response
The starter relay has 4 terminals, two large, two small.
The two large are primary power in, then primary power out (full battery power and amperage capable, LARGE wires)
the two small terminals are ground and trigger...the trigger is a low amp source from the starter button..that triggers (closes) the starter relay ..
The problem is, on the relay, both the ground circuit and the 12v trigger circuit could have opens.
The ground side of the relay comes by way of the clutch safety switch.. if that switch or its wiring failed, the starter relay gets no ground..
The 12v trigger side of the relay comes by way of the starter button.
the relay trigger and ground terminals are enclosed in the relay housing and the plug.. you would need to remove the plug to access the terminals.
Or you can back pin them with a needle probe if you have that.
A neat tool for doing diagnosis on an issue like this is a power probe. as with the flip of a switch it can provide a ground path or 12v..makes testing relays, light circuits, switches ect very easy.
if this is all greek to you, I can take a pic or 10 and show you what i mean...
The starter relay has 4 terminals, two large, two small.
The two large are primary power in, then primary power out (full battery power and amperage capable, LARGE wires)
the two small terminals are ground and trigger...the trigger is a low amp source from the starter button..that triggers (closes) the starter relay ..
The problem is, on the relay, both the ground circuit and the 12v trigger circuit could have opens.
The ground side of the relay comes by way of the clutch safety switch.. if that switch or its wiring failed, the starter relay gets no ground..
The 12v trigger side of the relay comes by way of the starter button.
the relay trigger and ground terminals are enclosed in the relay housing and the plug.. you would need to remove the plug to access the terminals.
Or you can back pin them with a needle probe if you have that.
A neat tool for doing diagnosis on an issue like this is a power probe. as with the flip of a switch it can provide a ground path or 12v..makes testing relays, light circuits, switches ect very easy.
if this is all greek to you, I can take a pic or 10 and show you what i mean...
11-26-2016, 06:56 AM
#43
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Joe, you're awesome. If I jump the ground it DOES try to crank. Apparently I was testing the wrong wire, at first. I'll look into a dedicated ground with a swutch ir button to buy time, like you said, but it still doesn't fire when I have ground jumped.
11-26-2016, 07:32 AM
#44
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No I'm not awesome, Erik is awesome for helping me on that. But your next step is to find the bad ground in the circuit.
Again, in my journey it was the sidestand switch. Failed when it heated up. Also I needed a neutral switch. Both quick cheap and easy.
You may need the button. All are wearoutable parts that you will need to change anyway.
Vaya con Dios hermano.
Again, in my journey it was the sidestand switch. Failed when it heated up. Also I needed a neutral switch. Both quick cheap and easy.
You may need the button. All are wearoutable parts that you will need to change anyway.
Vaya con Dios hermano.
11-26-2016, 07:35 AM
#45
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Oh and check or bypass the clutch switch. It is 2 blade connectors at the clutch lever. You can build a simple bridge to connect the 2 wires trying to go to the lever.
My guess is if you connect them to each other, the bike will start in the way it was intended but that's just a guess.
My guess is if you connect them to each other, the bike will start in the way it was intended but that's just a guess.
11-26-2016, 07:48 AM
#47
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Oh and check or bypass the clutch switch. It is 2 blade connectors at the clutch lever. You can build a simple bridge to connect the 2 wires trying to go to the lever.
My guess is if you connect them to each other, the bike will start in the way it was intended but that's just a guess.
My guess is if you connect them to each other, the bike will start in the way it was intended but that's just a guess.
Of course. Jumping the clutch switch works. The bike kicks forward with it jumped (because I currently don't have a working clutch. New Master Cylinder is on the way).
11-26-2016, 08:37 AM
#49
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To my surprise, my new Clutch pieces and neutral switch will be here about 3 days early. They're actually on the way to my mailbox RIGHT NOW. I don't think I've ever seen a package arrive early. I don't think I've ever seen a package arrive on time, as a matter of fact. Thumbs up to bike bandit for getting it done, and on the week of Thanksgiving.
11-26-2016, 10:10 AM
#50
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Whats that saying? Don't count you chickens or they might become fried chickens?
Funny, I stopped using BB because they screwed me on so many deliveries, including parts shipped right to a racetrack.
I used ronayers for a while but their site got all messed up so now I use partszilla. Fastest delivery yet.
Funny, I stopped using BB because they screwed me on so many deliveries, including parts shipped right to a racetrack.
I used ronayers for a while but their site got all messed up so now I use partszilla. Fastest delivery yet.
11-26-2016, 10:21 AM
#51
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Whats that saying? Don't count you chickens or they might become fried chickens?
Funny, I stopped using BB because they screwed me on so many deliveries, including parts shipped right to a racetrack.
I used ronayers for a while but their site got all messed up so now I use partszilla. Fastest delivery yet.
Funny, I stopped using BB because they screwed me on so many deliveries, including parts shipped right to a racetrack.
I used ronayers for a while but their site got all messed up so now I use partszilla. Fastest delivery yet.
Also,is there any special steps to follow for replacing the neutral switch? Ir is it just-
1. Take old out
2. Put new in. ?
11-26-2016, 04:32 PM
#52
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Of course, my new neutral switch didn't solve my problem. Only verified that my low fuel light IS in fact connected directly to neutral. Still unsure as to why or how.
New cup on the clutch master cylinder came in. I got it on and cleaned up the whole assembly. Of course, I had a friend help with bleeding the line, and wouldn't you know, when I thought I almost had it, the bleeder screw on my slave cylinder snapped off.
I decided to give it a rest for the day. Tomorrow I'll look and see if it can be tapped without messing anything else up. Any idea where to get a new bleeder screw? Or maybe a used slave cylinder?
New cup on the clutch master cylinder came in. I got it on and cleaned up the whole assembly. Of course, I had a friend help with bleeding the line, and wouldn't you know, when I thought I almost had it, the bleeder screw on my slave cylinder snapped off.
I decided to give it a rest for the day. Tomorrow I'll look and see if it can be tapped without messing anything else up. Any idea where to get a new bleeder screw? Or maybe a used slave cylinder?
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