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Old 11-05-2011, 12:33 PM   #121
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Wow Im glad we all love superhawks !!! I can feel the love when I read about them on this form not so much with this post 10 min of my life wasted. LOL
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:51 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Big Shepp View Post
You have a point tweety, but here's mine:

What happens when you walk out of the supermarket and a criminal mugs you? In Canada you have no weapon. Where I live I have to explain why the would be mugger has 15 holes in him. Also I'm not talking about Sweden, I'm referring to Canada and/or England. I know Sweden is the most well armed country per capita. But the point it is doesn't matter how many guns you have it you don't have one on your person when it matters. THATS the point of concealed carry.
Big Shepp,
You write, "In Canada you have no weapon". You knew nothing about Sweden before Tweety informed us all about reality there and you certainly don't know anything about Canada's gun laws. You need to read up a bit before making such statements. Well let me tell you there are plenty of people with weapons. I for one have 4 guns. Any Canadian can buy a long gun, assuming you have taken the proper courses. You aren't however allowed military type weapons since they serve no useful purpose. You can buy a hand gun but there again, you need a special license to own one. You aren't allowed to hunt with and you certainly can't carry it around ***** nilly. Most people that own them are members of shooting clubs. Our government is doing away with having to register long guns, although there are many who disagree with that policy.
Apart from perhaps some 3rd world countries such as Mexico, the US has one of the highest firearm deaths rates in the world. Read the following information provided by the WHO (World Health Origination)
A study of firearm deaths in high income countries (Australia, Austria, Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom (England and Wales), United Kingdom (Northern Ireland), United Kingdom (Scotland), and the United States) was conducted with data from the World Health Organization assembled by the WHO from the official national statistics of each individual country from 2003 by Richardson and Hemenway, 2011. The total population for the United States for 2003 was 290.8 million while the combined population for the other 22 countries was 563.5 million. There were 29,771 firearm deaths in the US and 7,653 firearm deaths in the 22 other countries.

Now explain to me how if every American was allowed to carry a concealed weapon, that would protect you. Maybe the reason so many Americans are getting killed by guns i.e. hand guns, is that every Tom Dick and Harry can go out and buy one for no good reason other than the fact that on December 15, 1791 the second amendment in the US constitution allowed it. Of course, back then there wasn't much law and that right was an important one. We also had that right but alas, the world has evolved and laws evolve for the good of all people. Allowing more people to carry a concealed weapon just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it. Incidentally, our homicide rate is now below 1966 levels. Yes some bad guys have hand guns that illegally came across the border from the US but I can't see how me carrying a hand gun will protect me.
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Old 11-05-2011, 02:50 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Big Shepp View Post
You're completely correct about the military having the power to level these cities in seconds flat, but what solder is going to fire on American Citizens in their own homes? I'm from a military town and I'd find it hard to believe those guys would fire on their neighbors and friends. Don't forget that soldiers are citizens with private weapons too, and I doubt the'd give theirs up.
It's not unprecendented:

At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks (exWW1 Renault) commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of civil service employees left work to line the street and watch. The Bonus Marchers, believing the troops were marching in their honor, cheered the troops until Patton ordered the cavalry to charge them—an action which prompted the spectators to yell, "Shame! Shame!"

Shacks that members of the Bonus Army erected on the Anacostia Flats burning after the confrontation with the military.
After the cavalry charged, the infantry, with fixed bayonets and adamsite gas, an arsenical vomiting agent, entered the camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River to their largest camp and President Hoover ordered the assault stopped. However Gen. MacArthur, feeling the Bonus March was a Communist attempt to overthrow the U.S. government, ignored the President and ordered a new attack. Fifty-five veterans were injured and 135 arrested. A veteran's wife miscarried. When 12-week-old Bernard Myers died in the hospital after being caught in the tear gas attack, a government investigation reported he died of enteritis, while a hospital spokesman said the tear gas "didn't do it any good.

Bonus Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 'Bonus Army' War in Washington

Carry on.
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Old 11-06-2011, 05:27 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by RK1 View Post
A few things to think about...

Most (more than half) of the "firearms deaths" in the U.S. are suicides. Japan has no privately owned firearms but triple our rate of suicide.

Mexico virtually banned the private ownership of firearms in 1969. Their homicide rate is nearly 400% that of the U.S.

The rate for gun related homicide in the U.S. is less than half what it was in the early 90's, despite the fact that we've added tens of millions of guns to our private "arsenals" in that time.

The homicide rate for America's non Hispanic white population is about the same as the rate for Canada and many European countries.

Because homicide rates correlate strongly with race/ethnicity, cultural and social factors and pretty much not at all with gun laws.
Yes some very good points. Mexico's problems have everything to do with the drugs trade and likely the same in the US. Legalizing drugs would change all that but that is a whole different discussion. I go to Mexico on business quite often and have to travel in some very unsavory areas. I've often thought that having a weapon for protection would be helpful but after much thought, I doubt it would do much good when you are dealing with a group of men with a gun leveled at you and yours in is some holster or pack. Trying to pull out a gun would in all likelihood be too late and may in fact get me killed instantly.
I think most people in this forum outside the US find it strange that a person in a developed country would need or want to carry a concealed weapon for protection. The cultural differences are difficult to understand. In 2008, we had 167 crime related deaths using firearms and a total of 518 suicides related deaths using fire arms. If on a percentage basis minority crime rates are much higher, then perhaps society should look into solving some of the issues that are at the root of the problem. And that is a whole new discussion of it's own.
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:36 AM   #125
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The bonus march incident is an interesting chapter in American history for a variety of reasons, but not because U.S. Army troops followed orders to fire on American civilians.

No such order was given and no bonus marchers were shot.

If I wished to cite examples of regular troops firing on civilians, I'd be talking about His/Her Majesty's troops firing on folks in the 13 Colonies, Ireland, India and half a hundred other places around the globe.
A very interesting chapter that politicians would order military action against civilians. Thankfully no-one was indeed shot but sending tanks against a group of US citizens & vets that were demonised (as pinko commies) and that military commanders on the ground overstepped their orders, and that the army soldiers didn't mutiny at their task potentially shows how close events came to being much more tragic.

Odd that you bait me about specifically HM armed forces killing civilians as together for example we as the Allies in our special friendship make a formidable double act, for example about 3,000 French people were killed in the first 24 hours of D-Day, double the number of US service personnel who died. However I won't raise to it and instead will put it down to the USAAF simply missing the barrels they were aiming for from altitude ;-)
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:39 AM   #126
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The list of "friendly fire" incidents from WW2 is exceedingly long but it's hardly the same as a military intentionally firing on its own citizens, or in the British case, subjects.

.... when one of Her Majesty's subjects passes judgment relating to imperialism, empire, arrogance of power etc., he shouldn't be too surprised by a poke back in the ribs accompanied by guffaws and knee slapping. Just sayin'.
Well the US is carrying the baton well for "imperialism, empire, arrogance of power etc." >> No Gun Ri, My Lai, Panama Haditha, Baghdad, La Mohammed Kalay. Just sayin'

PS yes I'm British born but at the time of the British Empire my direct relatives were Austro-Hungarians probably busy making life miserable to Slovaks or sumfink. Then the Soviets came in '56 with their particular version of ""imperialism, empire, arrogance of power etc.". making my family refugees.
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Old 11-08-2011, 05:48 AM   #127
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This one is a pretty funny read:

http://www.tensionnot.com/jokes/gun_laws
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:52 AM   #128
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Good that your people made it out.

Here's one of my all time favorite pictures of an armed civilian.

15 year old Erika and her ppsh-41. She dedicated her life (and lost it) making life miserable for Soviet invaders. Budapest, 1956
If she's armed to fight a foreign occupancy is she still a civilian? I'd label her militia/private military.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:52 AM
 
 
 
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